Check out this 911 engine a/x mod car, I'd put a MassIVe type four in it if it was mine Options

[nebreitling]

We have one around here also!

Looks like they need to spend alot more time in a wind tunnel for this winged beast to work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

i assure you that their setup is effective for it's purpose. it would probably bein a stall above 70 mph, though.

[Randal]

We have one around here also!

Looks like they need to spend alot more time in a wind tunnel for this winged beast to work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

i assure you that their setup is effective for it's purpose. it would probably bein a stall above 70 mph, though.

How do you test front/back wings for autoxing?

[J P Stein]

Here's a bit more info on A Mods in general.
Where do you test a wing?????

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=317278

[Randal]

Here's a bit more info on A Mods in general.
Where do you test a wing?????

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=317278

We could all probably do better with front / rear wings, assuming the rules allowed them, but how do you ever figure out a base line as to whether it works or not? I mean this is real engineering..

Sure I could run down to NASA and ask if I can borrow their wind tunnel, but I doubt I could get it for what I can afford.

So how do you do this following some sort of scientific approach?

[Randal]

Here's a bit more info on A Mods in general.
Where do you test a wing?????

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=317278

We could all probably do better with front / rear wings, assuming the rules allowed them, but how do you ever figure out a base line as to whether it works or not? I mean this is real engineering..

Sure I could run down to NASA and ask if I can borrow their wind tunnel, but I doubt I could get it for what I can afford.

So how do you do this following some sort of scientific approach?

And by the way I'm talking about serious wings like on those A modified cars, both front and rear.

[J P Stein]

Here's a bit more info on A Mods in general.
Where do you test a wing?????

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=317278

We could all probably do better with front / rear wings, assuming the rules allowed them, but how do you ever figure out a base line as to whether it works or not? I mean this is real engineering..

Sure I could run down to NASA and ask if I can borrow their wind tunnel, but I doubt I could get it for what I can afford.

So how do you do this following some sort of scientific approach?

Load cells at each corner & run the car up to 60....on a calm day ....on a smooth stretch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
First the wingless configuration for a baseline, then rig it up and go for it.

I doubt that Boeing would loan me the big tunnel ...or 4 load cells, for that matter.
It's a moot point anyhow...for me at least. I can't run one in E Mod. 5 square feet in X Prepared ain't worth spit....I figure.....even if the rest of the car was legal there. PCA *seems* to be wide open here....I'd really have to dig thru the PCRs
to verify that.

[Randal]

Here's a bit more info on A Mods in general.
Where do you test a wing?????

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=317278

We could all probably do better with front / rear wings, assuming the rules allowed them, but how do you ever figure out a base line as to whether it works or not? I mean this is real engineering..

Sure I could run down to NASA and ask if I can borrow their wind tunnel, but I doubt I could get it for what I can afford.

So how do you do this following some sort of scientific approach?

Load cells at each corner & run the car up to 60....on a calm day ....on a smooth stretch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
First the wingless configuration for a baseline, then rig it up and go for it.

I doubt that Boeing would loan me the big tunnel ...or 4 load cells, for that matter.
It's a moot point anyhow...for me at least. I can't run one in E Mod. 5 square feet in X Prepared ain't worth spit....I figure.....even if the rest of the car was legal there. PCA *seems* to be wide open here....I'd really have to dig thru the PCRs
to verify that.

I gave up on the classes awhile ago JP. Right now I'm classified at AX2, but if I go to AX1 no problem.

I don't think there is any restrictions on wings in the new rules, but I'll go look again.

[Randal]

Here's a bit more info on A Mods in general.
Where do you test a wing?????

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=317278

We could all probably do better with front / rear wings, assuming the rules allowed them, but how do you ever figure out a base line as to whether it works or not? I mean this is real engineering..

Sure I could run down to NASA and ask if I can borrow their wind tunnel, but I doubt I could get it for what I can afford.

So how do you do this following some sort of scientific approach?

Load cells at each corner & run the car up to 60....on a calm day ....on a smooth stretch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
First the wingless configuration for a baseline, then rig it up and go for it.

I doubt that Boeing would loan me the big tunnel ...or 4 load cells, for that matter.
It's a moot point anyhow...for me at least. I can't run one in E Mod. 5 square feet in X Prepared ain't worth spit....I figure.....even if the rest of the car was legal there. PCA *seems* to be wide open here....I'd really have to dig thru the PCRs
to verify that.

I gave up on the classes awhile ago JP. Right now I'm classified at AX2, but if I go to AX1 no problem.

I don't think there is any restrictions on wings in the new rules, but I'll go look again.

Here is a link to our rules.

http://comp.pca-ggr.org/rulcomm_cs/web/mods_list.php

Looks like you could have a pretty big wing on the back. It doesn't address front wings, so maybe we could hang a big one on there?

Andrew B. will know as he was one of the charter writers.

[URY914]

Testing? WTF? If it looks cool and people talk about it, it works! Just like my air scoop.

I think I could use it. High speed oversteer is what I got. The last two times I spun I was hauling ass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[J P Stein]

Looks to me like add 40 points & it's katie bar the door. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
At the SCCA Nationals, the top A Mods wax the field by 4 sec..give or take..per run!
Wings the things...

[URY914]

J P,

Did you read that story on PP about slow speed wings on A-mods? He said a "thick" wing in cross section is what you need to have an effective slow speed wing. Something like 2.5"to 3" at its thickest point if it was say 12" wide. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

"In regards to wing design for autox. The problem is finding a profile that is efficient for low-speed applications. Most of the profiles out there for airplanes and race cars are all designed for higher speed. For low speed applications, you need a "thick" body relative to the wing's cord (measurement from leading edge to trailing edge). The goal is to find a profile that approaches 20% in that ratio. For amaturers like us, it's almost impossible to develope our own profile."

[914forme]

And you guys thought I was crazy for thinkin' the Sprint Car wings would work.

Okay so when will we See Trek Post about his 4'x8' wing he built (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[nebreitling]

How do you test front/back wings for autoxing?

take them off, and see if you go faster or slower!

seriously, though, FSAE has done some significant work in this area. likewise, i've seen data aquistition on the web that shows those cars doing .4 lateral g's more with the wings than without. the question is, of course, is: given the added weight/higher cg/etc., does this result in a faster net time? one would think that the Amod guys have already answered this.

low speed aero is real, it's just a question of whether or not it would be a net benefit given the car and the layout of the track.

[nebreitling]

http://www.napylon.com/Phantom.htm

[URY914]

And you guys thought I was crazy for thinkin' the Sprint Car wings would work.

Okay so when will we See Trek Post about his 4'x8' wing he built (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Actually mine will have some wood in it.

[914forme]

Actually mine will have some wood in it.

that is the old school way of doing it Paul.

What are you driving a 914 or a Morgan?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I can understand that it might be easier to build an airfoil out of wood, but You could build them almost as easily out of Al, or sheet metal, via a hardwood buck and harmerforming. I have a been trained in the ways of a master carpenter since I was a wee lad. ( I am the first generation not to be in the building trade.) So I understand the ease of making something out of wood. Problem with wood is you never get the same constancy in the wood as you would with a wood laminate, or just go the correct way and make the frame out of Al. With Al. you spread your frame cords out father, and the reduction in numbers means reduced weight. The entire package can be reduced except you must take into account the load you have created into the structure. Why am I talking to you about reducing weight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Your the king of car weight loss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[URY914]

I would use wood for the inner ribs and an aluminum tube(s) to hold them together. Something like these guys did, see link. But they have those nice milled aluminum ribs. I also need to fab in some mounting hardware. Maybe skin the whole thing in VERY thin wood veener and than cover with FG or CF cloth. Add some CF end plates and I'm done.



http://bleex.me.berkeley.edu/ME102/proj_ar...nstruction.html

[maf914]

Just do the surfboard thing, foam core covered with FG with a few internal braces/attachment members for mounting. No need to get out Norm's classic wood working tools or enlisting her majesty's panel beaters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[J P Stein]

Just do the surfboard thing, foam core covered with FG with a few internal braces/attachment members for mounting. No need to get out Norm's classic wood working tools or enlisting her majesty's panel beaters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

You'll notice that most of these wings are multi-element jobbies.
The big slabs on WOO cars are effective, but they have 800 hp to over come the drag.....hp to burn. The foam core would allow one to make several of the same airfoils then stack them up to your hearts content.....a guy could fuck around with AOA & elements for years.....or just call Ferrari & have them make you a few.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[URY914]

Who said I wasn't going multi-level? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I've already been laying it out.