SOT: 914 heat exchanger technology applied to the home, Heat for free! |
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
SOT: 914 heat exchanger technology applied to the home, Heat for free! |
bondo |
Dec 9 2006, 10:51 PM
Post
#1
|
Practicing my perpendicular parking Group: Members Posts: 4,277 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Los Osos, CA Member No.: 587 Region Association: Central California |
Our house has electric heat, which gets expensive to actually use. We have a fireplace, but it doesn't have an outside source for combustion air. The result is that whenever we have a fire, the living room gets warm, but the bedroom actually gets COLDER because cold outside air is being drawn in by the fire.
The solution to this problem was to build a heat exchanger to sit at the back of the fireplace. Air gets bown through it and then plumbed to our bedroom via PVC pipe. The air comes out of the exchanger at about 140 degrees, and by the time it gets to our bedroom it's about 85 degrees (bigger drop than I expected, but whatever). In case you're wondering, the PVC pipe is rated at 90 degC and we have a CO alarm in our bedroom in case something goes wrong. Attached image(s) |
biosurfer1 |
Dec 9 2006, 11:05 PM
Post
#2
|
Teener fo Life! Group: Members Posts: 3,020 Joined: 3-August 03 From: Roseville, CA Member No.: 977 Region Association: Northern California |
I'm a HVAC engineer and this is a first for me. We use heat exchangers all the time, but its usually for running through pipes to which air is then blown across and heated up. In a round-about way, I guess it's sort of the same concept. Why didnt you just run spiral ducting?
quite out of the box thinking , thats for sure:) |
firstknight13 |
Dec 9 2006, 11:05 PM
Post
#3
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 652 Joined: 25-March 05 From: manchester,ct. Member No.: 3,817 |
good idea BUT co alarm won't save you from the dangerous plastic fumes if a fire arises.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
|
Aaron Cox |
Dec 10 2006, 12:53 AM
Post
#4
|
Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
wrong on soo many levels..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
|
Britain Smith |
Dec 10 2006, 02:00 AM
Post
#5
|
Nano Member Group: Members Posts: 2,354 Joined: 27-February 03 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 364 |
If you are married, I can't believe the wife let you do such a thing.
-Britain |
SirAndy |
Dec 10 2006, 03:07 AM
Post
#6
|
Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,636 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
In case you're wondering, the PVC pipe is rated at 90 degC and we have a CO alarm in our bedroom in case something goes wrong. a few things ... get some hitemp paint and paint the metal part inside the fireplace black. that should be good for a few more degrees starting temp. you can also increase the surface area by adding fins to it, if possible. actually, the same goes for the inside of the heat-exchanger (fins, not paint) ... then insulate your ducting to the bedroom. does your fireplace have a flow-restrictor? if not, buy one ... it'll help reducing the air flow out of the chimney and increase the temperature inside the fireplace. alternatively, you can get the same effect by adding a airtight glass door to the front of the fireplace and some kind of air-regulator on the intake side ... i like it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) Andy |
highways |
Dec 10 2006, 03:13 AM
Post
#7
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 613 Joined: 18-June 05 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 4,296 |
Wowsers! You guys are tough. Ok that setup is butt ugly, but beautiful in the eye of the heat blower.
I would think it could be concieved to work independantly from the fan, by using induction or something. And could be plummed out of sight like the under the floor... hopefully with copper and to code or something. Energy transfer is cool. PVC, not. One thumb up for "get off your butt imagineering". One thumb down for "Ow!! my Eyes!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) |
Nick |
Dec 10 2006, 04:36 AM
Post
#8
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 25-June 04 From: Washington DC Member No.: 2,250 |
The only thing I have seen like this circulated water through the fireplace then out to radiators in other rooms. It had the advantage of looking like a fire grate and I think it would lower your chances of transferring fire gasses to other rooms of the house.
Nick |
Katmanken |
Dec 10 2006, 10:04 AM
Post
#9
|
You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Here is what we did....
In North Carolina, they use those heat pumps that stop producing heat at 32 degrees. When the temp got that low, the electric heat strips turned on and your power meter could be heard spinning and banging on the wall... A fireplace insert with a fan and glass doors was the trick. Had a sheetmetal flue. Throw in a coupla logs, turn on the insert fan and a plume of hot air came shooting out. Go to the heat/ac thermostat, turn on the FAN only, pump the heat through the house. Ken |
rhodyguy |
Dec 10 2006, 03:04 PM
Post
#10
|
Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,079 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
do the down pipes from the manifold extend into the fire? if the firebox is masonry i don't think i would paint it. don't dampen the flue unless you restrict the firebox opening. the fireplace will not draw correctly and will it *smoke*. how often do you burn in the fireplace?
|
bondo |
Dec 10 2006, 03:04 PM
Post
#11
|
Practicing my perpendicular parking Group: Members Posts: 4,277 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Los Osos, CA Member No.: 587 Region Association: Central California |
Hehe, my wife loves it... I guess I'm just lucky. I agree it isn't much to look at but it's temporary and we're cold. When the weather warms up it can all come out. None of it is glued together. Unfortunately there is nowhere else to run the ducts... we ave a slab on grade and a flat roof. The electric heat is radiant, so we have no air circulation at all except for this contraption.
I like the idea of glass doors to keep the exiting air to a minimum. I'll also add some black paint next time I clean out the fireplace, it it hasn't naturally turned black by then. As for burning plastic fumes, I'm pretty sure burning plastic would release CO and set off the alarm. We also have a smoke detector (of course). |
rhodyguy |
Dec 10 2006, 03:14 PM
Post
#12
|
Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,079 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
what does a cord of firewood run in los osos? i heated with wood for years. i can't imagine doing it again.
k |
bondo |
Dec 10 2006, 03:31 PM
Post
#13
|
Practicing my perpendicular parking Group: Members Posts: 4,277 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Los Osos, CA Member No.: 587 Region Association: Central California |
We use the fireplace almost daily in the winter. I work at a shop and burn a lot of scrap wood from the trash. I've seen ads for half cords of wood for around $100 to $150. We may buy a bunch now that we have this setup.
If we use the electric heat our bill for one month goes up about that much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
rhodyguy |
Dec 10 2006, 03:44 PM
Post
#14
|
Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,079 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
get some doors. you won't pull as much heated combustion air. slows down the house air loss as the fire goes down at night also.
|
TROJANMAN |
Dec 10 2006, 03:51 PM
Post
#15
|
Looks nice in pictures......... Group: Members Posts: 5,270 Joined: 5-March 04 From: Colorado Member No.: 1,753 Region Association: None |
have you consider a fireplace insert with a blower on it?
We had one, and they are pretty awesome |
VaccaRabite |
Dec 10 2006, 04:13 PM
Post
#16
|
En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,442 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Or a fire place insert pellet stove.
Any fireplace insert is going to really heat up more then a regualr fire place. Zach |
Air_Cooled_Nut |
Dec 10 2006, 05:20 PM
Post
#17
|
914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
Or a fire place insert pellet stove. Any fireplace insert is going to really heat up more then a regualr fire place. Zach Bingo! My parents did this and DAMN that thing pumped out the heat! The pellets were more cost effective than dear ol' Dad buying wood, chopping it, stacking it, hauling it, etc. His back thanked him, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
Air_Cooled_Nut |
Dec 10 2006, 05:23 PM
Post
#18
|
914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
do the down pipes from the manifold extend into the fire? if the firebox is masonry i don't think i would paint it. don't dampen the flue unless you restrict the firebox opening. the fireplace will not draw correctly and will it *smoke*. how often do you burn in the fireplace? Correct. There is a good amount of engineering in the design of a proper fireplace. Unfortunately, the majority aren't done properly. For example, mine is located outside of the house and the opening was too big. I say "was" because I created a small steel lip to reduce the size of the opening and thus keep smoke from 'spilling' into the house. Yeah, I've done a good amount of reading on fireplaces in the library & on-line... |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 14th May 2024 - 02:50 AM |
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002 |
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community! We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ... |