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> Dr 914's pictures of the steel 916 replica roof in the making
nomore9one4
post Jan 10 2007, 05:28 PM
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Anyways..The guy should sell a "how to" with cardboard patterns for this. I would be interested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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jd74914
post Jan 10 2007, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jan 10 2007, 02:56 PM) *

No, it will flex less rather than more with the steel roof affixed.


My thought pattern had nothing to do with the steel roof being a problem. I was thinking that with an x bar connecting the windshield frame and roll bar there would be a very uneven distribution of load and hence a problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that that makes any sense since the middle of the windshield wouldn't have any more force on it anyways.

Thanks Dave . . . I did not know that.
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Johny Blackstain
post Jan 10 2007, 06:49 PM
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George- you know you're killing me! That's just beutiful work. I've yet to hear anything on the subject. Anxiously awaiting. Amazing what topics you miss out on here when you go out driving! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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highways
post Jan 10 2007, 06:55 PM
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X-Brace and a steel roof will add lot's of strength. Much less flexing in the car overall. And I would say that both an x-brace and steel roof would provide comparably the same improvements (as long as the x-brace is mounted well). I would even venture to say that reinforcing the roof in one of these two ways would be a larger stiffness improvement over a common chassis stiffening kit.

If you want to better understand the principle of distributing the sheer load around the entire box structure- get a shoe box. Now with the top firmly on the shoe box give it a twist. Now with the top off the box- give it another twist. See the difference?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Johny Blackstain
post Jan 10 2007, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE(highways @ Jan 10 2007, 07:55 PM) *

X-Brace and a steel roof will add lot's of strength. Much less flexing in the car overall. And I would say that both an x-brace and steel roof would provide comparably the same improvements (as long as the x-brace is mounted well). I would even venture to say that reinforcing the roof in one of these two ways would be a larger stiffness improvement over a common chassis stiffening kit.

If you want to better understand the principle of distributing the sheer load around the entire box structure- get a shoe box. Now with the top firmly on the shoe box give it a twist. Now with the top off the box- give it another twist. See the difference?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Exactly! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
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McMark
post Jan 10 2007, 07:03 PM
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Nice analogy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

I've been pondering making a 916 replica with my aubergine car... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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scotty b
post Jan 10 2007, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE(faux916 @ Jan 10 2007, 03:28 PM) *

Anyways..The guy should sell a "how to" with cardboard patterns for this. I would be interested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Really isn't that hard to do and your glass roof gives you ALL the tech you need. Proper curve, dimensions etc. No special tools other than a welder, sheetmetal brake would be neccesary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A couple of piecxes of channel,c-clamps and a hammer can make a decent brake in a pinch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)
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GeorgeRud
post Jan 10 2007, 07:19 PM
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Beautiful work. I assume the top sheetmetal has to be formed on an English wheel to get both curvatures right. It can be amazing how something that looks so straightforward can really be quite difficult.

You have to really appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into something like this. Leave it to the Irish!
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Eric_Shea
post Jan 10 2007, 07:22 PM
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I'd like to build a brace like that Misha girl posted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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scotty b
post Jan 10 2007, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE(GeorgeRud @ Jan 10 2007, 05:19 PM) *

Beautiful work. I assume the top sheetmetal has to be formed on an English wheel to get both curvatures right. It can be amazing how something that looks so straightforward can really be quite difficult.

You have to really appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into something like this. Leave it to the Irish!


Little if any curveature front to back. If there is indeed some then yes a wheel is the best option. It's amazing to me that something that looks so difficult is actually so straightforward ! EDIT after looking at the pics again there is DEFINITELY front to back curve. Wheel that and lightly shrink the 2 front corners to make them pull downward
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nomore9one4
post Jan 10 2007, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE(highways @ Jan 10 2007, 04:55 PM) *

X-Brace and a steel roof will add lot's of strength. Much less flexing in the car overall. And I would say that both an x-brace and steel roof would provide comparably the same improvements (as long as the x-brace is mounted well). I would even venture to say that reinforcing the roof in one of these two ways would be a larger stiffness improvement over a common chassis stiffening kit.

If you want to better understand the principle of distributing the sheer load around the entire box structure- get a shoe box. Now with the top firmly on the shoe box give it a twist. Now with the top off the box- give it another twist. See the difference?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

With or with out shoes in it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)
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highways
post Jan 10 2007, 09:29 PM
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Without shoes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) Better weight savings (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Actually just talked to proto31 about it- told me stuff I didn't know. 914 GT's had a fiberglass top with a metal X brace in it...? It slips into the front targa seal like normal but then there was a little arrangment where it gets pinned into the frame? I'd like to see pics if anyone has them.... sounds sweet!
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SGB
post Jan 10 2007, 09:47 PM
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So when are you doing the 918 replica? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Aaron Cox
post Jan 11 2007, 01:24 AM
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again... very nice fab work...

but isnt it a compund curve? not just a side to side... but there is a slight curve front to back....

english wheel?
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John Kelly
post Jan 11 2007, 08:14 AM
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That is nice work! An english wheel would be good choice, but it would probably take two people to keep conrol of the panel. One of them would have to be pretty skilled. Getting the shape in the right area would be tricky for a beginner. Any panel that is shaped free form without being restrained will want to curve in directions that are unintended by the operator. Some of the TV shows make it seem like an english wheel is the magic tool for something like this. It is, but it won't do the work by itself. There is a pretty steep learning curve. It can be very frustrating. You have to stretch the areas that need the most shape, and then do lighter stretching nearby to blend the shape into the rest of the panel, all the while controlling the contours in all directions. So, you stretch, and smooth. The metal goes catywhampus on you (because it can) then you have to roll the panel back into the desired contours, check where you still need stretching and start all over again.

Another method would be make the frame, roll the metal to fit side to side, weld, then add shape with a palm nailer. More intuitive for a beginner, because you stretch where it is low until you have the right contours, and the frame keeps the perimeter in line for you. The frame would have to be very stiff to keep from getting distorted by the stretching work.

A mixture of the two methods above would be interesting as well. You would add shape until the panel was getting out of your control, then weld it to the frame and start stretching with the palm nailer.

The hemmed edge? on the rear would not be easy for a beginner either. Nice work!

I think large panels with fairly low crowned shape like that are sometimes harder to do than ones with lots of compound curve in them.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com
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PinetreePorsche
post Jan 11 2007, 08:45 AM
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Geo: I recall an article somewhere about you locating an original, clearly hand-prototyped 916--but I don't recall where. Probably there are some others on this site who also don't know the story. Could you give us the name, date, etc of that article, and maybe a short paragraph that capsulizes the story--particularly why the solid roof was missing when you got yours? (Was it originally solid on these cars for structural/tortional rigidity, or what?)
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sechszylinder
post Jan 11 2007, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE(John Kelly @ Jan 11 2007, 06:14 AM) *



Another method would be make the frame, roll the metal to fit side to side, weld, then add shape with a palm nailer. More intuitive for a beginner, because you stretch where it is low until you have the right contours, and the frame keeps the perimeter in line for you. The frame would have to be very stiff to keep from getting distorted by the stretching work.

A mixture of the two methods above would be interesting as well. You would add shape until the panel was getting out of your control, then weld it to the frame and start stretching with the palm nailer.

The hemmed edge? on the rear would not be easy for a beginner either. Nice work!

I think large panels with fairly low crowned shape like that are sometimes harder to do than ones with lots of compound curve in them.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com


Hello John,

I'd like to mention a third method. Wouldn't it be good idea to take the rear trunk lid for the curved regions of the roof ? It should have nearly the same shape as the roof.
If this would work, one could alternatively check the junkyards for properly shaped roofs of donorcars.


Benno
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Jan 11 2007, 10:15 AM
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QUOTE(SGB @ Jan 10 2007, 07:47 PM) *

So when are you doing the 918 replica? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Who has the engine?
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Jan 11 2007, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE(PinetreePorsche @ Jan 11 2007, 06:45 AM) *

Geo: I recall an article somewhere about you locating an original, clearly hand-prototyped 916--but I don't recall where. Probably there are some others on this site who also don't know the story. Could you give us the name, date, etc of that article, and maybe a short paragraph that capsulizes the story--particularly why the solid roof was missing when you got yours? (Was it originally solid on these cars for structural/tortional rigidity, or what?)


There have been many articles over the years about our Brumos Peter Greg 916 but the excellence article of June 1994 is probably the one of which you are thinking.
Yes the roof was added for rigidity.
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Jan 11 2007, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Jan 11 2007, 08:10 AM) *

QUOTE(John Kelly @ Jan 11 2007, 06:14 AM) *



Another method would be make the frame, roll the metal to fit side to side, weld, then add shape with a palm nailer. More intuitive for a beginner, because you stretch where it is low until you have the right contours, and the frame keeps the perimeter in line for you. The frame would have to be very stiff to keep from getting distorted by the stretching work.

A mixture of the two methods above would be interesting as well. You would add shape until the panel was getting out of your control, then weld it to the frame and start stretching with the palm nailer.

The hemmed edge? on the rear would not be easy for a beginner either. Nice work!

I think large panels with fairly low crowned shape like that are sometimes harder to do than ones with lots of compound curve in them.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com


Hello John,

I'd like to mention a third method. Wouldn't it be good idea to take the rear trunk lid for the curved regions of the roof ? It should have nearly the same shape as the roof.
If this would work, one could alternatively check the junkyards for properly shaped roofs of donorcars.


Benno


Geoff and the Irishmen actually sacrificed a 914 fiberglass roof to make the steel one.
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