Twin Spark, who's done it? how? Options

[brer]

I have seen the twin spark dizzies. Straight forward.

Then there are the crank fire twin pack setups. ok.


what else can be used?
Piggyback systems?




(picture is for entertainment purposes only. this is not my motor)

[brer]

anyone guess what i'm thinking?

[r_towle]

hall sensor, coil on plug dual plug...?

I think Jake did one...its in an article in vw trends ( I think) or hot vws...cant remember

Rich

[Aaron Cox]

jake did it...

use a v8 unilite cap and make a custom rotor....

[Twystd1]

First off. I have not done twin plug....... YET...

There are many aftermarket EFI systems that will work with COP.

I'm pretty sure I will be using the LINK efi system to facilitate this.

This is gunna be on a type IV.

Adrian, Len, and my machinst friend all have a dual plug setup for the 2.o head.

I like COP as the dwell time for each coil is LONG.... Therefore a smaller coil.

And we can adjust spark timing AND dwell time per cylinder. Schweeet.

AND.... From a cosmetic perspective. You can almost hide all the wires. No dizzy, no plug wires. PURDY....

So how are you gunna do your setup?

C

[brer]

Curses that Jake! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


I knew someone must of done something like this.
seems simple to me.



Just thinking about a way to put my twin plug 1.7 heads to use.
Use a pickup on each plug wire to act as a trigger for the 4 COP's acting on the second plugs.

There are several integrated tach pick ups that would work and not be as fugly as the Timing light clamp.
Incorporate a engine-on switch that reads that the engine is running and energizes the second sparkers.
If the motor dies the system goes cold.

Would work with any standard system that has plug wires.

[ClayPerrine]

Even easier.. use a Nissan 4 cylinder pickup truck cap and rotor. Make a custom plate to hold the cap, and an adapter for the rotor.

The Nissan cap and rotor were designed for a dual ignition 4 cylinder engine. Requires 2 coils though.


Zim's has a prototype one built that I helped with. Once the owner finds a machine shop to run them, they will be selling bolt on kits to adapt a stock 4 cylinder distributor to dual ignition. It will fit the 356 and 914 engines.

[brer]

this cap with the dual channel rotor correct?

[Aaron Cox]

dude... look at the mallory unilte angle.. i think a v8 cap will drop on.....

just need a fab'd rotor....

but the best way is to call clewett and go electromotive...

or Megajolt could do it no?

[Twystd1]

Brer, In the picture you posted at the beginning of this.

Wasn't the second pic in the second post, a pic of 6 coil on plug (COP) setups?

Clayton

[McMark]

Our esteemed Mike Mueller and I had a conversation about this very idea a couple of months ago. I think it's a valid idea, worthy of investigation. The COP angle is a good idea. Should make triggering the spark a little bit easier. But I'm confused, if you have COP, why do you need an 8 post distributor? 4 posts for the 'traditional' spark plugs, COP for the inductive trigger spark plugs. Git 'er DONE! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[Twystd1]

McMark,

Thats why I am confused about this thread....

We have a picture of a COP setup and pics of dual plug Porsche 6.

COP doesn't need a dizzy, plug wires, cap, rotor. NADA...

It's all computer controlled.

Thats why I asked him about the pics a few posts back.

I dunno.... I don't get it.

Let's wait and see what Brer is really trying to accomplish.
And how he wants to do it.

Maybe I B retarded... Won't B the 1st time..............................

C

[ClayPerrine]

this cap with the dual channel rotor correct?

That's it. And the reason for the distributor with the 2 coils is that while the Coil on Plug setup works well, it doesnt' have the vintage feel of 2 coils and the distributor with 8 wires on it (or 12 if you are running a six).

I plan on dual ignition on my new six when I build it. You can buy a dual ignition distributor for a six from various online resources.

[ottox914]

All this is cool, but for the type 4 motor, where/how do you come up with the twin plug head, and at what $$$ ?

[ClayPerrine]

All this is cool, but for the type 4 motor, where/how do you come up with the twin plug head, and at what $$$ ?

You have to get a machinist to drill a stock head for a second plug. It would be better to have a plug from the bottom, but the pushrod tubes make it really hard, and you have to use HD motorcycle plugs on the bottom to provide enough clearance.

[brer]

Our esteemed Mike Mueller and I had a conversation about this very idea a couple of months ago. I think it's a valid idea, worthy of investigation. The COP angle is a good idea. Should make triggering the spark a little bit easier. But I'm confused, if you have COP, why do you need an 8 post distributor? 4 posts for the 'traditional' spark plugs, COP for the inductive trigger spark plugs. Git 'er DONE! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

This is exactly what my idea was. Stock 4 post distributor and ignition for the main plugs, slip on an inductive trigger to each "existing" wire to fire the second plug, which is powered by a COP.

My original thought was that it would remove the need for lots of plug wire running, and the extensions on some of the COP's would allow it to reach the plug up under the head.

Hi temp wires and converting the distributor would cost more than this idea I think.

Simple trigger. less plug wires means lower maintenance costs.

My 1.7 is using the stock DJet system for ever, and is the motor that will be finished first and back in the car first. Otherwise I'd be looking at distributors that dont need the FI trigger switch.


Clayton- The first photo was just a cool pic I found of a twin plug engine.
The second and third were just pictures of COP's and an inductive trigger (used the timing light image so people would grasp the concept) to illustrate what parts I was thinking of using.


Further, I wanted to keep my original 1.7 "stockish" looking since its the original motor for my car. 1.7 tin, but bad plug angle. So I went on thinking and thought that I could add the second plug underneath, and link them up without much hassle to improve the spark. I'm going with HIgh compression PC's and 9:1 ratio, so I think better spark would be a +.

I realize its not as "trick" as the modified cap and twin coils, but this would provide better spark and reliability (maybe?).
And maybe lead to other upgrades later if I make the choice to go EFI.

[brer]

I posted this to also ask how others had done it.

Other options may exist that are better than the way I was thinking, like the twin spark cap. If there's more lets see em. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[BigDBass]

This seems like a good place to ask my newbie question: What is the benefit of a twin plug setup?

[Aaron Cox]

twin plugging allows you to run up to 1 more point of comprssion on the same grade of gas....

say 10:1 was the limit on premium, now you can run 11:1 wih twin plug

[brer]

cuz its one higher.. right? 11.
(spinal tap)