944 stubs on 911 hubs, the bearing spacer info you need Options

[Aaron Cox]

ok, so there are two ways to do this im told, you can make a spacer to fill the area on the stub where the dust seal on a 944 used to live, or you can lathe that off, and let the stub sit deeper into the hub-

so here are pics with dimensions......
ill have to go back and write in the dimensions.... cant read the calipers on a few. (shoulda got the digital ones LOL)

the materials required.
Bearing, early 911 hub, 951 stub, calipers.


Bearing width.


diameter of "dust seal area" and diameter of bearing area on hub.


width of dust seal area


width of bearing area on hub


combined....


bearing diameter if you need it.

[John]

I prefer the later hubs, but then you would probably need another spacer....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Luke M]

Hey, Aaron
Is that the setup that you have on your car now or something that youre looking into? I have the patrick motorsport setup now but i'm not crazy about the spacer that goes between the cv and trans output shaft. This looks like the way to go to me. Do you have a break down of the parts needed to complete this. Also, if I go to a 915 trans it should still all bolt up right?

[ClayPerrine]

Hey, Aaron
Is that the setup that you have on your car now or something that youre looking into? I have the patrick motorsport setup now but i'm not crazy about the spacer that goes between the cv and trans output shaft. This looks like the way to go to me. Do you have a break down of the parts needed to complete this. Also, if I go to a 915 trans it should still all bolt up right?

I have this setup on my six (and I did this first, almost 2 years ago now). It works great, bigger CV joints, and it all bolts together.

First thing.. Aaron.. it is NOT a dust seal. It is the bearing surface. The 944 uses a flange on the hub that is smaller than the 914. So that part of the stub axle fits into the bearing.

If you want to avoid the spacer, then machine off the back of the 911 hub the same amount as the shoulder on the 944 stub axle. This also has the added benefit of not requiring the spacer, or machining the 914 axles. If you do this, you can use the 944 axles without modification.

[Luke M]

Clay,
Which setup do you have on your six?
I'm going to a 2.7rs six and would hate to have cv/spacer come apart on me.
I've heard of these spacers/bolts coming loose and wrecking afew things.

[Aaron Cox]

Hey, Aaron
Is that the setup that you have on your car now or something that youre looking into? I have the patrick motorsport setup now but i'm not crazy about the spacer that goes between the cv and trans output shaft. This looks like the way to go to me. Do you have a break down of the parts needed to complete this. Also, if I go to a 915 trans it should still all bolt up right?

I have this setup on my six (and I did this first, almost 2 years ago now). It works great, bigger CV joints, and it all bolts together.

First thing.. Aaron.. it is NOT a dust seal. It is the bearing surface. The 944 uses a flange on the hub that is smaller than the 914. So that part of the stub axle fits into the bearing.

If you want to avoid the spacer, then machine off the back of the 911 hub the same amount as the shoulder on the 944 stub axle. This also has the added benefit of not requiring the spacer, or machining the 914 axles. If you do this, you can use the 944 axles without modification.

clay, so if i machine the hub, i can use a complete 944 axle.... but i couldnt run 944 cv's on a 914 axle then (too short?)

and i havent found a pair of early coarse spline trans flanges, to bolt the inside upto.....

was interested in dropping 944 cv's onto the machined 914 shafts...

[LarryR]

Hey, Aaron
Is that the setup that you have on your car now or something that youre looking into? I have the patrick motorsport setup now but i'm not crazy about the spacer that goes between the cv and trans output shaft. This looks like the way to go to me. Do you have a break down of the parts needed to complete this. Also, if I go to a 915 trans it should still all bolt up right?

If you decide not to use your Patrick Motorsport setup I would buy it from you. I think you get to loose the adapter once you run a 915 on the PM set up.

[ClayPerrine]

Hey, Aaron
Is that the setup that you have on your car now or something that youre looking into? I have the patrick motorsport setup now but i'm not crazy about the spacer that goes between the cv and trans output shaft. This looks like the way to go to me. Do you have a break down of the parts needed to complete this. Also, if I go to a 915 trans it should still all bolt up right?

I have this setup on my six (and I did this first, almost 2 years ago now). It works great, bigger CV joints, and it all bolts together.

First thing.. Aaron.. it is NOT a dust seal. It is the bearing surface. The 944 uses a flange on the hub that is smaller than the 914. So that part of the stub axle fits into the bearing.

If you want to avoid the spacer, then machine off the back of the 911 hub the same amount as the shoulder on the 944 stub axle. This also has the added benefit of not requiring the spacer, or machining the 914 axles. If you do this, you can use the 944 axles without modification.

clay, so if i machine the hub, i can use a complete 944 axle.... but i couldnt run 944 cv's on a 914 axle then (too short?)

and i havent found a pair of early coarse spline trans flanges, to bolt the inside upto.....

was interested in dropping 944 cv's onto the machined 914 shafts...

Then you need the spacer. You could put the 914 cv on the 944 axle, but it is going to move inward on the splines.

I would use the coarse splined 915 flanges and run the 944 stuff all the way around.

[ClayPerrine]

Clay,
Which setup do you have on your six?
I'm going to a 2.7rs six and would hate to have cv/spacer come apart on me.
I've heard of these spacers/bolts coming loose and wrecking afew things.

I have the spacer and the 944 CV joints on a 914 axle. We did that one first before we (I had the help of Wes Hildreth, he was using my car for the prototype) figured out that you could machine the hubs and use 944 axles without mods.


If you do this right, you won't break a joint. Those 944 CVs are beefy suckers, and you get a 6 bolt connection to the flanges.

[John]

Those 944 axles that bolt up to the coarse spline 915 output flange would also bolt up the the 911 stub axle from the same year and would not require machining.

The 944 axle is the replacement part for NLA 911 axles 1975-early 1984. If using a outer hub from the 911 (1974-1989), one would still need a 5mm spacer (the 911 bearings were 5mm wider).

[Luke M]

Clay,
Could you break down the parts/years that you used on your six.
( hubs to trans out put flange ) got any pics handy?
Sounds like your setup works good w/o any spacers.

[ClayPerrine]

Clay,
Could you break down the parts/years that you used on your six.
( hubs to trans out put flange ) got any pics handy?
Sounds like your setup works good w/o any spacers.

Mine actually has the spacers, but here goes.

From transmission to hub, with spacer.

1. 76 911 (915 trans) 6 bolt, coarse spline drive flanges.
2. 944 CV Joint
3. 914 axle machined to accomodate the wider 944 CV joints.
4. 944 CV Joint
5. 944 stub axle.
6. Spacer.
7. 69-73 911 Hub.

From transmission to hub, without spacer.

1. 76 911 (915 trans) 6 bolt, coarse spline drive flanges.
2. Complete 944 axle assembly with both CV joints and shaft.
3. 944 stub axle.
4. 69-73 911 hub, machined to remove the thickness of the shoulder on the 944 stub axle.

By taking the thickness (I think it is 5mm, but I am not sure) of the shoulder on the stub axle off the hub, you move the stub axle that far outboard. That makes up for the longer 944 axle, and eliminates the spacer. That also should be minor machining for a good machinist.


The second one was done after I put my car on the road.

Pictures.

[Luke M]

Thanks, for the info. Clay.
Looks like that may be the way I'll go about it also.
I'm looking to have the later 911 hub machined down to fit the 914 bearing/944 stub axle. Did you use a 944 turbo stub axle or just a plain 944 stub axle ( any info. on the year )?

[Aaron Cox]

someone find me those tranny flanges.....

[John]

A no machining/no spacer solution would be:

1. 76 911 (915 trans) 6 bolt, coarse spline drive flanges.
2. Complete 944 axle assembly with both CV joints and shaft. (Performance Products 909264)
3. 911 stub axle 6-bolt (1975-1984).
4. 69-73 911 hub. (1974-1989 hubs require 5mm spacers but are for hub centric wheels)

just my $0.02

[amallagh]

John/Clay,
very informative post. Can you confirm what type of 944 axles can be used and answer a few more questions.

I think there are 3 or 4 different types based around differnet models and years. The Performance Products part number in an earlier post seems to match up with '87-'89 Turbo and '89-'91 S2.
Are these the only shafts that will work or can the shafts of the earlier 944 or 944 S be used ?

Do you also need to use the stub shaft from this same Turbo/S2 drive shaft or are the are stub shafts from the different 944 drive shafts interchangeable ?

According to the same Performance Products listing there were different 944 shafts for :-
1) '83-'85 944
2) '85-'88 944/944S/924S & '86 Turbo
3) '87-'89 Turbo & '89-'91 S2
Can anyone confirm exactly which part numbers (preferrably the Porsche part number) is required in this conversion ?

From what I have understood of the previous posts on here the other parts required are listed below -
2x '76 911 (915 transmission) 6 bolt, coarse spline drive flanges.
2x '69-'73 911 hub flanges with wheel bolts
2x '75-'84 911 stub axle 6-bolt OR 944 stub axle type TBC above (the 911 stub axle is a 'nice to have' if you don't want to machine down the hubs)

Can someone confirm the Porsche part numbers for these parts as well to make the search for parts a little similier.

Many thanks - if this set up works as described then it sounds fantastic.
Andrew

[Krieger]

The 944 axles are too long by about 3/4". There are some that are much shorter. I used machined 914/4 axles per a post I found here. Assembled very nicely using new 944 cvs from parts heaven. $84 each. Do a search for 944/911 axles -original date 8/25/06 by Sir Andy. Big Parts needed 915 coarse spline trans flange-parts heaven or easy $75 each, 911 6 bolt 100mm stubs-parts heaven $50 each, early 911 (69-73 I think) stubs. Good machinist. Do not use 944 stubs or you'll have to make/run a spacer. No, I have not installed these in my car yet but the stubs/flanges are identicle dimensionaly where it counts to the 4 parts.

[Elliot Cannon]

Aaron, are we EVER going to see this car on the road again???

[shoguneagle]

Excellent articles and could not be more timely. This article should be made a classic thread.

Aaron, eat your heart out!!! I have two transaxle drive flanges in my parts bin AND will be using them in making the conversion as per this thread.

To make the early 911 hub concentric fitting, I will probably have a spacer machined to go between the wheel spacer/ adaptor and into the hub inner flange. One side concentric; other with machined lip.

I like the idea of using 944 half shafts without spacers as are required when using 911 half shafts. What year and model 944 half shafts are used in making this thread conversion?

I also like the idea of the 100mm 944 CV joints.

Steve Hurt

[amallagh]

John/Clay,
very informative post. Can you confirm what type of 944 axles can be used and answer a few more questions.

I think there are 3 or 4 different types based around differnet models and years. The Performance Products part number in an earlier post seems to match up with '87-'89 Turbo and '89-'91 S2.
Are these the only shafts that will work or can the shafts of the earlier 944 or 944 S be used ?

Do you also need to use the stub shaft from this same Turbo/S2 drive shaft or are the are stub shafts from the different 944 drive shafts interchangeable ?

According to the same Performance Products listing there were different 944 shafts for :-
1) '83-'85 944
2) '85-'88 944/944S/924S & '86 Turbo
3) '87-'89 Turbo & '89-'91 S2
Can anyone confirm exactly which part numbers (preferrably the Porsche part number) is required in this conversion ?

From what I have understood of the previous posts on here the other parts required are listed below -
2x '76 911 (915 transmission) 6 bolt, coarse spline drive flanges.
2x '69-'73 911 hub flanges with wheel bolts
2x '75-'84 911 stub axle 6-bolt OR 944 stub axle type TBC above (the 911 stub axle is a 'nice to have' if you don't want to machine down the hubs)

Can someone confirm the Porsche part numbers for these parts as well to make the search for parts a little similier.

Many thanks - if this set up works as described then it sounds fantastic.
Andrew