Intermittent starting problem?, voltage regulator? Battery? Solenoid Options

[FB914]

Hi again:

Seems like I've been posting one problem after another for the past 3 months. Here's another one. I just replaced my starter only to find out the problem was the ignition switch, which I now replaced. The starter was a rebuilt unit that had been in storage for a few years. Now the car starts only when the battery tender is hooked up to the battery. Otherwise it doesn't turn over. I have 12 volts when I turn the key to the 1st position without the tender hooked up, when I try to start it the voltage drops to 10 volts and nothing. All the electric systems work fine and the car runs great once started. I have an optima red top that's 2 years old and will get fully charged with the tender.

Any ideas what the problem might be? The starter seems to work OK when the tender is hooked up and the voltage goes to about 13. Is it a voltage regulator? Starter? Bad ignition switch that I just put in? Battery? Solenoid???? I may try putting my old starter back in but wanted to see if I could get a few second opinions.

Any ideas please. Thanks

Frank B

[So.Cal.914]

You could get a long extension cord...

First I would get the battery tested (most Flaps will do it) under a load.

Sometimes a battery will show V correctly with out a load but then fall on its

face with. Second take the starter with you and have it tested also. With

those tested it narrows the field. Let us know.

[computers4kids]

I would check the grounds... there are 5 I believe on the 914. A bad ground will do exactly what you are describing. They are notorious for causing all kinds of wierd electrical problems.

1. Check where the battery strap bolts to fender
2. Above the tailshift of the tranny is a strap that connects the trans to the body
3. Under the relay board (left driver's corner of engine compartment
4 Behind headlight buckets (I think)
5. Can't remember I'm getting senile

Take the connections off and clean all surfaces.

[drive-ability]

I assume the battery tender is something like a 1 amp unit, That won"t make a bit of difference short term. Now if your saying the car starts/cranks when the tender is left on overnight and not when you remove it for that time, well I would wonder about the battery, less-so a draw in the system.
If the battery connection is skewed maybe just clamping on the tender makes a difference, meaning a lose of ajar terminal connection. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Howard]

I've got the exact same problem, but only seems to happen after car is on a longer trip. My Optima was 2 years and 11 months old, so just took it back to Costco yesterday for free replacement (love that store).

Anyway, new battery, same problem. Hooked up to charger draws 2 amps. Turn on key 3 amps even after fuel pump shuts off. New starter and solenoid on the way, but will check those other ground points, 3,4, 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). Headlights go dark when starter engaged. Volt meter is fairly accurate, shows just under 14 with engine running, drops to 12.5 with headlights on. ???

[drive-ability]

I've got the exact same problem, but only seems to happen after car is on a longer trip. My Optima was 2 years and 11 months old, so just took it back to Cosco yesterday for free replacement (love that store).

Anyway, new battery, same problem. Hooked up to charger draws 2 amps. Turn on key 3 amps even after fuel pump shuts off. New starter and solenoid on the way, but will check those other ground points, 3,4, 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). Headlights go dark when starter engaged. Volt meter is fairly accurate, shows just under 14 with engine running, drops to 12.5 with headlights on. ???

Howard,
If one had a car where the headlights go dark when you kit the starter, that tells me 1. your battery is down, 2. you have a problem with a battery connection, like a week cable etc.

Now with a voltage of 14 at idle and 12.5 with the lights on thats low to me for sure, lose belt or week alternator.

I would also ask you what do you do to get it started after your long drive? Jump it or charge it or just let it cool?

If you let it cool maybe your starter is skewed but the low charging voltage (12.5) doesn't support that.

If you jump or charge it well overall battery voltage is low and would support a skewed charging system, alternator, regulator etc.

[alpha434]

Check and make sure the nut on the the starter is tight...

[FB914]

I've got the exact same problem, but only seems to happen after car is on a longer trip. My Optima was 2 years and 11 months old, so just took it back to Costco yesterday for free replacement (love that store).

Anyway, new battery, same problem. Hooked up to charger draws 2 amps. Turn on key 3 amps even after fuel pump shuts off. New starter and solenoid on the way, but will check those other ground points, 3,4, 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). Headlights go dark when starter engaged. Volt meter is fairly accurate, shows just under 14 with engine running, drops to 12.5 with headlights on. ???

What warranty (if any) do the Optimas have? I got mine at Pep Boys less than 3 years ago - I think closer to 2. Need to dig up a receipt.

I'm also at 14 when car is running and 12v when lights are on. With turn signals on it goes as low as about 10.5 with lights on. Opinions on whether I have a voltage issue? My headlights seem to stay bright when starting (or trying to). Voltage has been this way since I replaced battery.

FB

[FB914]

Oh yeah, car still won't start or tuen over with battery showing a full charge on battery tender. Spent day on yardwork so I couldn't change starter but tomorrow I'm going to try to swap the battery and also put old starter back on if that doesn't do the trick

[Howard]

Thanks for the tips, guys. Learned a little more this afternoon.

Cleaned the grounds on relay box and front headlight buckets. Fully charged new battery. Still same voltage readings on car voltmeter, but realized it's wired funny. Drain on headlights, dash lights, brake and turn signal and the voltage still drops. Not so with cig lighter. Big draw, but it doesn't go thru voltmeter. At the battery, with a known gauge, readings are:

Engine off: 14
Idle: 16.8
Idle with headlights on: 16.6

Checked on the 996, and readings about the same. Headlights go out when starting either of them.

So charging system and cables appear to be OK. No problem starting car today, but I'm still going to get the new starter and solenoid. They appear to be original.

Optimas have a full 3 year replacement warranty. Not sure if that was the problem, but no problem with the return. Pondered over new battery at Costco, their house brand had the same cold cranking amps as the Optima, full 3 year warranty, and $100 less. Got that, 1.75's of Cuervo and Absolut, and still came out $50 to the good.

[orange914]

I would check the grounds... there are 5 I believe on the 914. A bad ground will do exactly what you are describing. They are notorious for causing all kinds of wierd electrical problems.

1. Check where the battery strap bolts to fender
2. Above the tailshift of the tranny is a strap that connects the trans to the body
3. Under the relay board (left driver's corner of engine compartment
4 Behind headlight buckets (I think)
5. Can't remember I'm getting senile

Take the connections off and clean all surfaces.

definately sounds like (resistance) and possibly voltage drop (probably caused by resistance) not only ground but in connections on hot side also. you shouldnt lose more than .5 volt per connection and/or 2 volts from battery to final destination (starter). load test your battery also, i've found alot of trickle chargers will kill a battery even gell cells

[pbanders]

It's amazing how many issues there are with the charging/starting system. I know you've checked some of this stuff already, but here's what I'd check:

1. Battery - do a load test to verify it's good. A fully-charged battery will read 12.75 V with the engine off and the surface charge removed (turn on the lights for 10 minutes before checking the voltage).
2. Alternator - there are a bunch of tests, the simplest is to see if you're getting 14 V when the car is running, as measured at the battery.
3. Grounds - main ones to worry about are the battery (my ground looked just fine - right until it fell apart in my hands), tranny ground strap, body grounds (see wiring diagram), alternator ground (very crappy - the path is alternator body => bracket => fan shroud => engine => tranny => ground strap) - you can check this by measuring D- at the VR plug while the car is running with the lights on, you should see less than 0.5V, any more than that, I'd check into it.
4. Ignition switch - as you know, Porsche did some crazy crap by routing many systems through the switch, including the current path for the starter solenoid. Best way to check is by measuring the voltage right at the solenoid when you turn the key, I think the magic number here is 11 V or more.
5. Solenoid - mine used to not work when it'd get hot. I'd need someone to turn the key while I whacked it with the jack handle. I finally bought a new starter and solenoid and that fixed it - I suspect you can lube the solenoid if you want to try fixing it.
6. Cabling - The B+ from the alternator, the positive lead from the battery, solenoid cabling, etc. - all should be replaced if there's any doubt, just remember, all that stuff is now nearly 40 years old.

[Howard]

Brad, great stuff. Since my problem only occurs after the car has been on a long run (300+ miles) and then goes away, I'm hoping the new starter/solenoid will fix what seems to be problem #5.