Santa Rosa Zone & AX events #2 & #3 Options

[DanT]

That's pretty depressing... I am way, way down in the results.

I'm also rather distressed about the cars I am supposed to be running against! (Ray Fiore's Aubergine 76 has at least suspension and R-compound tires, not to mention almost double the power.)

--DD

Now Dave......don't tell me you are unhappy with our new points system? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

Now Dave......don't tell me you are unhappy with our new points system? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Actually, I've never been happy with it... I feel there are too many variables for a points system like this to work very well. Case in point, the near-stock 914s are getting penalized because 914s respond better to most of the modifications than the other cars do--so to give highly-modified 911s a chance, they set the initial points values for 914s relatively high.

--DD

[grantsfo]

Now Dave......don't tell me you are unhappy with our new points system? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Actually, I've never been happy with it... I feel there are too many variables for a points system like this to work very well. Case in point, the near-stock 914s are getting penalized because 914s respond better to most of the modifications than the other cars do--so to give highly-modified 911s a chance, they set the initial points values for 914s relatively high.

--DD

I dont know my opinion has been changing on this point system. If you look at Dan, Demick or Rich Walton all can pretty much whip those highly powered 911's in slightly modified T4 powered 914's at the majority of AX events. If the points system was terribly unfair for AX, good 914 drivers wouldnt have a chance against high HP cars in similar classifications. If I look at my car, it has set TTOD at two events. Its nothing more than a 914 with a 200 hp small bore six, fat DOT tires and some fiberglass bodywork. Compared to other cars in my point classification it would appear I have a signficant HP and tire width disadvantage, but carrying less weight is an huge advantage in AX that often is dimissed as not a critical factor. I do believe all 914's have a handling advantage and the points system doesnt penalize you much for going after some weight reductions that make a definite difference in AX times.

I think the biggest issue with points system is for GGR time trials. Most of our tracks favor HP over handling. I'd be upset if I was an avid TT guy, but I dont think I'll ever make it to a PCA TT. I'm probably going to go directly to some sort of club racing.

[Dave_Darling]

I dont know my opinion has been changing on this point system. If you look at Dan, Demick or Rich Walton all can pretty much whip those highly powered 911's in slightly modified T4 powered 914's at the majority of AX events. ...

Demick and Dan are in AX7 and AX8 respectively. I'm talking AX14, for myself. Which goes back to what I was referring earlier, that the 914s respond better to modifications than many other cars do. So to keep it more even up in the modified areas, they penalize the stock (or almost stock) 914s.

And yes, part of it is me being pissy about having to un-modify my car after having a setup I liked that was pretty good in the old system. And part of it is a certain someone mis-classing his car (I believe). And yes, also part is the way I drove that day.

But I am still dissatisfied with the system.

--DD

[DanT]

Dave, last year I ran in AX11 with my car. everything is the same as it is this year other than the motor rebuild.
I was running on 3 year old (heat cycled out) Victors and was never less than ~2 secs up on my competition. Which included 964s, 911s, 996s, 993s and BoxsterS and Boxsters...
What is unfortunate there is no granularity to some of the points. For a car like yours you take the same number of points as I do just by putting 140# springs on the rear of your car while I have 21mm front torsion bars and 180# rear springs. Because of the way the points are set up we both get the same points hit.
So if you go back to our old system you potentially have BI and BP cars in the same class.

Dave you need to look at the points system and suggest some changes over on the GGR bbs.

Check out the proposals I have suggested for next season.

As far as cars you feel are misclassed you are running against....

PROTEST them I have protested 2 cars in the last two years. Both were misclassed.
Just let the AX chair know your concern and have them speak to the car's owner during the event....that way it is a done deal and you quit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) when you are at the events.
Too many folks complain about misclassed cars in their class but never make the effort to protest them and get them into the class they belong in.

[Dave_Darling]

Unfortunately I am not that familiar with the new system, and I don't really know enough to protest. I didn't even know what class I was in at the event, I had to email Larry later and ask for it to be added!

It is too bad about the granularity, but reading David Leong's posts is very discouraging for anyone who is thinking about trying to make changes.

I will look over your proposals again; I recall that they have pretty much all been well thought out.

Sadly, I don't have anything constructive to say about the new system as yet--I'm too focused on whining about it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It would be neat to have a finer granularity on the suspension changes--that was one of the things that was pretty nice about the old rule set. Ditto the 914-specific provisions.

It still chaps me that I'll need to ditch the rear springs (and perches) to go back to stock, and find that rear sway bar I have in storage. Good thing I didn't decide to sell it!

--DD

[nebreitling]

dave, why change your setup if you're happy with your car? just for a few AX's?

screw 'em. yes, you may be out outgunned, but who cares? it's a silly AX! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[DanT]

Dave,
....
David Leong is no longer the competition chair and is completely out of the loop of the Drivers Event Committee. The current DEC is comprised of folks that really don't like the system as it currently stands and are looking for ways for it to become more equatable... the old regime is gone.

Larry is amenable to changes...always has been. David was the sticking point.
He felt the system was just about perfect and took every suggested change personally.
Look at the rules, suggest changes where you see fit...
Your input is just as valid as anyone elses.


and I also agree with Nathan....don't change your car if you don't want to. Drive it the way it is and the way you enjoy it.

look at the rules, suggest changes for next season (like more granularity in the suspension points)
Care enough to try to make it better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Chris Pincetich]

Dave - you barely beat me! I'll be looking for revenge at the next race (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
I thought keeping track of AX points this year would be fun...so far I'm 4th-ish overall in AX 12. The white 911 RSA is in AX 12 also (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
Sadly, one of my favorite annual mountainboard races was cancelled, which opens up May 19th for a possible AX with GGR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[grantsfo]

Dave,
....
David Leong is no longer the competition chair and is completely out of the loop of the Drivers Event Committee. The current DEC is comprised of folks that really don't like the system as it currently stands and are looking for ways for it to become more equatable... the old regime is gone.

Larry is amenable to changes...always has been. David was the sticking point.
He felt the system was just about perfect and took every suggested change personally.
Look at the rules, suggest changes where you see fit...
Your input is just as valid as anyone elses.


and I also agree with Nathan....don't change your car if you don't want to. Drive it the way it is and the way you enjoy it.

look at the rules, suggest changes for next season (like more granularity in the suspension points)
Care enough to try to make it better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I have never paid attention to classes at GGR events. I have always had more fun chasing TTOD. When I started I was about 10 seconds off TTOD. Then 6 seconds the next year. Last year I was within 4 seconds. Last AX I was a little over 1 1/2 seconds from Hamilton Racing's TTOD. Making steady progress is very satisfying to me. Goal now is to be under a second from TTOD of the fast GGR drivers.