 OK, I May Be Dreaming Again - 986/996 Engine, with 986 5 or 6 speed trans |
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| seanery |
 May 6 2007, 10:39 PM
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#1
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waiting to rebuild whitey!  Group: Retired Admin Posts: 15,852 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Indy Member No.: 100 Region Association: None  |
I haven't committed to anything on whitey's conversion yet...and my mind started to wonder. How 'bout a water-cooled Porsche motor? I've looked, there are a lot of choices available right now.
- 0 mile 2004 911 3.6 replacement motor (315hp) - 18k mile 2002 911 3.6 (320hp) - 34k mile Boxster S 3.2 (250 hp) - 39k mile Boxster 2.7 (217 hp) (prices vary from 4000 - 12000) *hp numbers from Kelly Bluebook dot com also - Boxster S 6 speed trans (bad 3rd gear) - Boxster 2.7 5 speed trans (40k ish miles?) I know we've discussed this before - and I KNOW there are issues. Something about rear suspension relocation...but can't remember the details. What about computer issues? Heat? I should be able to do modern heat, right? Exhaust - A Cayman or Boxster muffler? Custom headers (probably a must?) or maybe Cayman/Boxster headers? with some tweeking? I know there are more issues, and definitely don't know the answers...can we get a good discussion going on this topic? TIA -the dreamer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| seanery |
May 6 2007, 11:02 PM
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#2
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waiting to rebuild whitey! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 15,852 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Indy Member No.: 100 Region Association: None |
after a quick check of ebay, it looks like stainless aftermarket Boxster headers and mufflers are reasonable $500ish to $800ish.
But I'm sure a 914-6 sport muffler could be fabbed to fit up, too. |
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| McMark |
May 6 2007, 11:38 PM
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#3
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
What you need to know is an overall width dimension. I can compare it to a 993 motor, or compare it to the trailing arm inner mount bolts width. I would guess it would add 6 months to a year to your project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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| DanT |
May 6 2007, 11:43 PM
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#4
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Isn't there someone who has been doing a Boxster S motor and tranny swap?
with the water cooled heads etc, the motor is considerably wider than an air cooled motor. Needs significant modifications to the chassis/suspension points. IIRC (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
May 7 2007, 12:13 AM
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#5
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,625 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ May 6 2007, 09:43 PM)  Isn't there someone who has been doing a Boxster S motor and tranny swap? with the water cooled heads etc, the motor is considerably wider than an air cooled motor. Needs significant modifications to the chassis/suspension points. IIRC (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) yes. that would be Jason (SilverBullet) he's been working on it for 3 years now ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) Andy |
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| Gary |
May 7 2007, 02:09 AM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 744 Joined: 12-January 03 From: Mount Airy, MD Member No.: 134 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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There was a thread on this a long while ago. Consensus then was that the motor was too wide to clear the trailing arm mounts, so you'd need a custom rear suspension.
I asked a few weeks ago whether a 986 tranny will bolt to the new VR6, which is now 3.6L and in the 270-290HP range. Being Getrag manufactured, the 986 tranny for sure shares internal's with the VW and audi FWD trannys, but no one knew for sure whether the bolt pattern was the same. Neo has bolted the 986 tranny to the Audi 2.7, so I'm hopeful. The VR6 is tall though, would require I think taking out the front of the rear trunk. If pulled from the new Cayenne, would be an all-Porsche drivetrain. |
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| IronHillRestorations |
May 7 2007, 08:27 AM
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#7
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,717 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None
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Sean,
Stick with aircooled for a 914 conversion project. There's too much Star Trek (going where no one has gone before) involved with a 986/996 engine swap for not enough benefit. If you get a good 3.2 you'll be a very happy man, and it's been done so many times it's a bolt up deal without much custom fabrication. |
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| Howard |
May 7 2007, 10:43 AM
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#8
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Incontin(g)ent Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,785 Joined: 24-July 03 From: Westlake Village, CA Member No.: 943 Region Association: None 
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Or, I bet it would be easier to buy a salvage Boxster, scalp it and add a Sheridan body kit. That gives me an idea... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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| horizontally-opposed |
May 7 2007, 11:38 AM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,431 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(9146986 @ May 7 2007, 07:27 AM) Sean, Stick with aircooled for a 914 conversion project. There's too much Star Trek (going where no one has gone before) involved with a 986/996 engine swap for not enough benefit. If you get a good 3.2 you'll be a very happy man, and it's been done so many times it's a bolt up deal without much custom fabrication. Much as I like the idea of a 2.5 or 2.7 from the 986 in a 914, I have to agree with the above. And I'd rather try to take a 986 down to 2,500-2,600 pounds than to build a 914 up with a 986 engine and radiators, etc. Getting down to 2,600 in a 986 wouldn't be easy, though. With a half tank of gas, mine weighed in at 2,911 or something similar, with heavy 18s. Sounds awful, but it was only one pound more than a 1989 911 coupe on Fuchs 16s... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Really makes me want to weigh my 914.... You could probably drop 100 pounds from a 986 between GT3 seats, carbon lids, lighter wheels, and a light muffler. After that, A/C delete would get you ~45 pounds and then you'd be getting into stuff like trunk trim delete, sound deadening delete, and more. Which gets you back to 914 3.2 air-cooled for those perfect days, and a stock 986 for the rest of them. pete |
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| Justinp71 |
May 7 2007, 02:59 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,583 Joined: 11-October 04 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 2,922 Region Association: None
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I say have a shop build a 3.2/3.4 with some new PMO carbs, the new PMO's are suppose to be really good and there is an engine in Wayne's book that has 325hp.
I think the sound of a carbed engine with good exhaust surpasses anything else. You would save alot of money on a custom rear suspension too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif) check out this page: http://www.pmocarb.com/testimonials.htm |
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| woobn8r |
May 7 2007, 03:15 PM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 607 Joined: 7-January 07 From: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,435 Region Association: None |
You CAN do anything you want....it just takes money....
The question is WHY would you want to....with so many options currently available... I still don't understand the Subi conversion though....so maybe I'm too "old Skool". How about a 4 rotor Rotary...I'm sure it'll fit...It won LeMans... and could make about 600hp....(me being non conservative) My 914 is getting a nice new 3.2 thank-you very much Sean C |
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| roadster fan |
May 7 2007, 03:30 PM
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#12
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Project Frankenstein !!!!!!!! Group: Members Posts: 1,009 Joined: 24-November 05 From: Aptos, CA Member No.: 5,184 Region Association: Northern California |
Well I was gonna post these in a blog when I got some time, but since it has been brought up again here are some photos of the clearance issues. Let me know if you want more photos. oh yeah, 2000, 3.2 S motor, 44k miles with 6 speed out of same car ( donor flattened by tree, ouch).
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| roadster fan |
May 7 2007, 03:31 PM
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#13
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Project Frankenstein !!!!!!!! Group: Members Posts: 1,009 Joined: 24-November 05 From: Aptos, CA Member No.: 5,184 Region Association: Northern California |
another (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
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| roadster fan |
May 7 2007, 03:32 PM
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#14
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Project Frankenstein !!!!!!!! Group: Members Posts: 1,009 Joined: 24-November 05 From: Aptos, CA Member No.: 5,184 Region Association: Northern California |
and another
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| roadster fan |
May 7 2007, 03:34 PM
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#15
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Project Frankenstein !!!!!!!! Group: Members Posts: 1,009 Joined: 24-November 05 From: Aptos, CA Member No.: 5,184 Region Association: Northern California |
and the last for now. I will gladly take measurement off the motor and tranny if any one needs them for fitment issues, or photo the tranny mounting bolts for those wondering if the tranny will fit other motors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| zymurgist |
May 7 2007, 04:16 PM
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#16
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"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ May 7 2007, 01:38 PM) You could probably drop 100 pounds from a 986 between GT3 seats, carbon lids, lighter wheels, and a light muffler. After that, A/C delete would get you ~45 pounds and then you'd be getting into stuff like trunk trim delete, sound deadening delete, and more. Which gets you back to 914 3.2 air-cooled for those perfect days, and a stock 986 for the rest of them. You could probably remove all the hardware for the convertible top on the 986 and only drive it on perfect days. |
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| horizontally-opposed |
May 7 2007, 05:07 PM
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#17
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,431 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(zymurgist @ May 7 2007, 03:16 PM) QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ May 7 2007, 01:38 PM) You could probably drop 100 pounds from a 986 between GT3 seats, carbon lids, lighter wheels, and a light muffler. After that, A/C delete would get you ~45 pounds and then you'd be getting into stuff like trunk trim delete, sound deadening delete, and more. Which gets you back to 914 3.2 air-cooled for those perfect days, and a stock 986 for the rest of them. You could probably remove all the hardware for the convertible top on the 986 and only drive it on perfect days. Looked into this when we were working out our "Spec Boxster" Tech Forum. Apparently, it's only 30 pounds thanks to a *forged magnesium* top frame. What's more, the motors weigh almost nothing (six-ish pounds). 30 pounds might sound tempting, but you lose a major chunk of what makes the car great and usable. And the factory aluminum hardtop weighs 45~ pounds... I'd rather ditch the spare tire and jack for short trips, which has gotta be 20-30 pounds, easy. And then go after sound deadening and the stereo. Another way to go would be gutting the doors and making up some plexi side windows with simple guides and leather straps to keep them up. Or maybe GT3 RSR doors with the same adapted? Getting pretty "hard-core" though... Also raises safety concerns. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Then there are ultra-light Wilwood calipers and lightweight rotors... CF wheels, etc. But the $$$ are starting to explode. Fun to dream, though. Solution? Trick 914-4 or 914-6 and a stock 986 or 986S. pete |
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| McMark |
May 7 2007, 05:49 PM
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#18
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Thanks for the pictures! Great documentation.
Some keywords for future searching: boxster motor watercooled engine |
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| seanery |
May 7 2007, 05:56 PM
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#19
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waiting to rebuild whitey! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 15,852 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Indy Member No.: 100 Region Association: None |
the pics are great! What's your rear suspension solution gonna be?
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| roadster fan |
May 7 2007, 10:49 PM
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#20
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Project Frankenstein !!!!!!!! Group: Members Posts: 1,009 Joined: 24-November 05 From: Aptos, CA Member No.: 5,184 Region Association: Northern California |
Glad you liked the pics. I am leaning towards a semi trailing arm suspension like "groots" groot designbut have considered a dual a-arm setup, possibly 986.
After I get the motor and tranny mounted I will see how much room I have forward for the semi trailing arm mounts and decide. Just got the welder (millermatic 180) a couple of weeks ago and still laying down practice beads refining the skills (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) |
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