I haven't committed to anything on whitey's conversion yet...and my mind started to wonder. How 'bout a water-cooled Porsche motor? I've looked, there are a lot of choices available right now.

- 0 mile 2004 911 3.6 replacement motor (315hp)
- 18k mile 2002 911 3.6 (320hp)
- 34k mile Boxster S 3.2 (250 hp)
- 39k mile Boxster 2.7 (217 hp)
(prices vary from 4000 - 12000) *hp numbers from Kelly Bluebook dot com

also

- Boxster S 6 speed trans (bad 3rd gear)
- Boxster 2.7 5 speed trans (40k ish miles?)

I know we've discussed this before - and I KNOW there are issues. Something about rear suspension relocation...but can't remember the details.

What about computer issues?
Heat? I should be able to do modern heat, right?
Exhaust - A Cayman or Boxster muffler?
Custom headers (probably a must?) or maybe Cayman/Boxster headers? with some tweeking?

I know there are more issues, and definitely don't know the answers...can we get a good discussion going on this topic?

TIA
-the dreamer

after a quick check of ebay, it looks like stainless aftermarket Boxster headers and mufflers are reasonable $500ish to $800ish.

But I'm sure a 914-6 sport muffler could be fabbed to fit up, too.

What you need to know is an overall width dimension. I can compare it to a 993 motor, or compare it to the trailing arm inner mount bolts width. I would guess it would add 6 months to a year to your project.

Isn't there someone who has been doing a Boxster S motor and tranny swap?
with the water cooled heads etc, the motor is considerably wider than an air cooled motor. Needs significant modifications to the chassis/suspension points. IIRC

yes. that would be Jason (SilverBullet)

he's been working on it for 3 years now ...
Andy

There was a thread on this a long while ago. Consensus then was that the motor was too wide to clear the trailing arm mounts, so you'd need a custom rear suspension.

I asked a few weeks ago whether a 986 tranny will bolt to the new VR6, which is now 3.6L and in the 270-290HP range. Being Getrag manufactured, the 986 tranny for sure shares internal's with the VW and audi FWD trannys, but no one knew for sure whether the bolt pattern was the same. Neo has bolted the 986 tranny to the Audi 2.7, so I'm hopeful. The VR6 is tall though, would require I think taking out the front of the rear trunk. If pulled from the new Cayenne, would be an all-Porsche drivetrain.

Sean,

Stick with aircooled for a 914 conversion project. There's too much Star Trek (going where no one has gone before) involved with a 986/996 engine swap for not enough benefit. If you get a good 3.2 you'll be a very happy man, and it's been done so many times it's a bolt up deal without much custom fabrication.

Or, I bet it would be easier to buy a salvage Boxster, scalp it and add a Sheridan body kit. That gives me an idea...

Much as I like the idea of a 2.5 or 2.7 from the 986 in a 914, I have to agree with the above.

And I'd rather try to take a 986 down to 2,500-2,600 pounds than to build a 914 up with a 986 engine and radiators, etc.

Getting down to 2,600 in a 986 wouldn't be easy, though. With a half tank of gas, mine weighed in at 2,911 or something similar, with heavy 18s. Sounds awful, but it was only one pound more than a 1989 911 coupe on Fuchs 16s...

Really makes me want to weigh my 914....

You could probably drop 100 pounds from a 986 between GT3 seats, carbon lids, lighter wheels, and a light muffler. After that, A/C delete would get you ~45 pounds and then you'd be getting into stuff like trunk trim delete, sound deadening delete, and more.

Which gets you back to 914 3.2 air-cooled for those perfect days, and a stock 986 for the rest of them.

pete

I say have a shop build a 3.2/3.4 with some new PMO carbs, the new PMO's are suppose to be really good and there is an engine in Wayne's book that has 325hp.
I think the sound of a carbed engine with good exhaust surpasses anything else.

You would save alot of money on a custom rear suspension too.

check out this page:

http://www.pmocarb.com/testimonials.htm

You CAN do anything you want....it just takes money....

The question is WHY would you want to....with so many options currently available...

I still don't understand the Subi conversion though....so maybe I'm too "old Skool".

How about a 4 rotor Rotary...I'm sure it'll fit...It won LeMans... and could make about 600hp....(me being non conservative)

My 914 is getting a nice new 3.2 thank-you very much

Sean C

Well I was gonna post these in a blog when I got some time, but since it has been brought up again here are some photos of the clearance issues. Let me know if you want more photos. oh yeah, 2000, 3.2 S motor, 44k miles with 6 speed out of same car ( donor flattened by tree, ouch).

Click to view attachment

another Click to view attachment

and another

Click to view attachment

and the last for now. I will gladly take measurement off the motor and tranny if any one needs them for fitment issues, or photo the tranny mounting bolts for those wondering if the tranny will fit other motors.

Click to view attachment

You could probably remove all the hardware for the convertible top on the 986 and only drive it on perfect days.

Looked into this when we were working out our "Spec Boxster" Tech Forum. Apparently, it's only 30 pounds thanks to a *forged magnesium* top frame. What's more, the motors weigh almost nothing (six-ish pounds).

30 pounds might sound tempting, but you lose a major chunk of what makes the car great and usable. And the factory aluminum hardtop weighs 45~ pounds...

I'd rather ditch the spare tire and jack for short trips, which has gotta be 20-30 pounds, easy. And then go after sound deadening and the stereo.

Another way to go would be gutting the doors and making up some plexi side windows with simple guides and leather straps to keep them up. Or maybe GT3 RSR doors with the same adapted? Getting pretty "hard-core" though...

Also raises safety concerns.

Then there are ultra-light Wilwood calipers and lightweight rotors... CF wheels, etc. But the $$$ are starting to explode. Fun to dream, though.

Solution? Trick 914-4 or 914-6 and a stock 986 or 986S.

pete

Thanks for the pictures! Great documentation.

Some keywords for future searching:
boxster motor
watercooled engine

the pics are great! What's your rear suspension solution gonna be?

Glad you liked the pics. I am leaning towards a semi trailing arm suspension like "groots" groot designbut have considered a dual a-arm setup, possibly 986.

After I get the motor and tranny mounted I will see how much room I have forward for the semi trailing arm mounts and decide.

Just got the welder (millermatic 180) a couple of weeks ago and still laying down practice beads refining the skills

after reading bruce anderson's write up in the june excellence tech notes regarding the potential probs with the 986 and the 996, i doubt i would even purchase a boxster, let alone stick an engine out of one in a 914.

k

A fair comment, maybe, but it's kinda like saying you wouldn't buy a Carrera 3.2 because it could develop premature valve-guide wear, or a 911 SC because the studs might fail, or a 993 because a SAI failure could force you into a top-end rebuild, or any 1974-77 2.7 because the studs could pull out.

Or a 914 because it *might* get rusty...

Funny how different people read the same thing differently. I've gotten other responses from readers saying they feel a lot better about buying a 986 or 996 -- even though we laid out the ugly possibilities.

Me? I took a gamble 2.5 years ago on a 60,000-mile 986 2.5. It's got 97,000 miles now and, while I've had some niggles (MAF and coolant tank), it's been a great car and a really, really fun one. Could it blow up tomorrow? Yes, I suppose it could, but then I guess life does involve risk...

pete

any rear engine oil leaks pete? when craig (camp914) told me about the failure of one of the items for the power top on his boxster and the resulting $$$ associated with that. it alone was enough.

k

Nope. Car had one at ca. 29,000 miles or so, IIRC, then never again. There's a little weepage here and there by the cylinder heads (had it when I got it, has not gotten worse), but show me a Porsche that doesn't leak...

Top problems are a scary idea, as are any potential repair on these cars... What year was Craig's 986? The early cars were a work in progress on this front, with the top continuously improving from 1997-98 and then again in 1999 and then finally stabilizing and getting pretty good by 2000-2001. Not to say perfect, though....

Anyway, now we're getting off point. Let's get back to 986 engines, and I'll say that, despite their flaws, they are wonderful engines. If a 2.5 was a (really) easy swap into the 914 chassis, I would seriously consider it. 201 hp, fantastic sounds, 901-friendly torqueband, 986 transmission possibities... the list goes on.

But it's not. And another downside: losing the front trunk and maybe more, as (just about) always with water-cooler conversions...

pete

you know, when I started this thread, I hoped that there would have been some real world solutions since the last thread I started regarding this same topic about 3 years ago. It seems that it's really very tough or just not worth it to attempt the conversion for most of us. I really wish I had the time and the fab skills to engineer it myself, because I think it would be a blast to drive, and to show, too. But, alas, I don't, and it seems like even if I found a shop willing to take it on, it's gonna be a lot more time and a ton more moolah than a simple aircooled 6 conversion.

Well, maybe in another three years I'll bring it up again and we'll see where we are then. Or maybe I'll buy a used Cayman then

The only logical conclusion.

But who said logic was any fun?

pete

I would.

Yep.