Buying my second 914... powerplant suggestions? Options

[k4lpcm]

Hi all,

I'm picking up a '72 1.7 this weekend. It's in good running condition, but needs some help cosmetically for the interior and such. I plan on this being a semi-project car and have some general questions about powerplant. I'm contemplating any one of the following options:

-a Jake Raby built Type IV (not sure which one yet, probably the 2316cc)
-1970-1980's era 911 engine (again, not sure exactly which one, would love a second generation 930 engine though)
-Modern 3.6L 911 or smaller boxter powerplant

I'm sure the simple choice is the Raby engine, no? I would think the older 911 wouldn't be bad either, in terms of getting it to fit and making it run for the least heartache. I've almost ruled out the modern 3.6 option as I'm sure it's a royal pain to get that thing in a 914. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong about that, though.

So I'm just looking for some input... big 4, regular 6 (or 930), or newer big 6? I'm not looking for earth shattering performance... but I'd like to at least keep up with some of the quicker asian jobs in a straight line.

Am I correct in assuming I'd be okay with the standard gearing and transaxle if I stick with a built Type IV?

Thanks guys!
-Eric

[jonferns]

i say a six! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif):D:D --JON

[Twystd1]

Several of Jakes bigger 4s have the same or more HP than many sixes.

That said...... It's hard to beat a big six for pure thrills.

Then there is always the Suby Turbo conversion at about 1/2 the price of everything else.

Man... I'm glad I don't have that decision to make right now.

Cheers,

Clayton

[k4lpcm]

I've heard great things about Jake's engines. What is the going rate for a good condition six? I think it'll probably cost me $7k-ish for a Raby motor. Would a six be easier to swallow? Anyone ever put a first or second gen 930 powerplant into one of these things?

[iamchappy]

You mean like this..

[lotus_65]

That one was right down the middle for you, wasn't it, Chappy!
With all respect to the Chappys of our world...
A Suby would at least be in the ballpark, all things considered. Cheap, tuneable boxter and modern technology sounds good to me!
Every time I see some hotrodders WRX I see how freaking mean they can be.

You'd smoke those ricers if you wanted~
~
~
Just don't let them see the engine!

[sww914]

Porsche made a lot of nice aircooled 6 cylinders that practically bolt right in, kind of like it was made that way. Some are even known for their reliability, and if you want more HP from one, there's lots of ways to go about it.

[Jake Raby]

My 2316 engine in "Performer" trim now makes 215HP on pump gas at les than 9.5:1- it'll cost you in the neighborhood of 10K turnkey, complete... (more complete than you can imagine)

The six is a viable option for sure, but that extra 150+ pounds behind the driver's seat isn't necessary.

[k4lpcm]

Hey Jake,

Thats pretty impressive. Do you have any torque/hp graphs that I can take a look at for that motor? I'm also curious what the service life of that engine would be expected to be. It would be driven 3-4 times a week for the majority of the year... I'd hate to have to tear it down every 100 hours.

Also, what kind of cooling is required for that 215hp beast? Can it be done with standard baffles and no fan?

The big Type IV really is my favorite at this point. For simplicity, weight, etc... it just all makes sense.

Thanks guys! This forum is awesome.

My 2316 engine in "Performer" trim now makes 215HP on pump gas at les than 9.5:1- it'll cost you in the neighborhood of 10K turnkey, complete... (more complete than you can imagine)

The six is a viable option for sure, but that extra 150+ pounds behind the driver's seat isn't necessary.

[RoninEclipse2G]

If I can ever afford to get my hands on another teener I'm seriously thinking about the suby motor, you can get entire front clips from japan for ~$4k and 200+ hp with super reliability. I love my suby now but the payments are just dragging me down and selling it's the only way I have left to try and get back on track after a jobless period

[woobn8r]

Porsche 3.2l air cooled six.

Apples to apples baby....no mods, bulletproof.

[Jake Raby]

Hey Jake,

Thats pretty impressive. Do you have any torque/hp graphs that I can take a look at for that motor?

This engine and several others similar to it are just at the end of their final developmental stages and have not been released to the public yet. More info about them will be hsraed about them on my forums in Mid June, we have more camshaft development to finish first.

I'm also curious what the service life of that engine would be expected to be. It would be driven 3-4 times a week for the majority of the year...

More power does NOT mean shorter life, contrary to conventional wisdom. Through development, testing and the use of these engines in our own personal and test/track cars it's easy to determine a lifespan of 80K miles before PREVENTIVE maintenance- thats the minimum we shoot for.

Honestly a bigger engine has proven time and time again to be less stressted than a stocker, because with proper gearing and configuration the MassIVe engine doesn't need to be pushed to attain performance.

I'd hate to have to tear it down every 100 hours.

when engines are correctly designed, developed and tuned the life span is measured in years of service, not hours. One thing we have never had an issue with is longevity and reliability, the Type 4 platform offers us it's exceptional design, we capitalize on that and keep stock reliability and longevity with double the stock power output.

I drive one of these engines everyday, 83 miles round trip- I haven't had to walk yet and I'll go for a couple of months without even checking the oil... Last year I completed a 3,450 mile R&D trip cross country in 4.5 days at an average speed of 76 MPH, we averaged 71 MPH to the top of the Continental divide up Loveland Pass in Colorado then forsged on to Sacramento california where we clicked of a 94 MPH 1/4 mile pass- that engine received ZERO maintenance all the way across the US. Read more here
www.aircooledtechnology.com/crosscountry

Note that this was not an exotically built engine, just a run of the mill 180HP 2270cc engine with non exotic parts, it was built from one of my engine kits in two days with a magazine editor from Hot VWs looking over my shoulder as it was featured in the series "Type 4 Torquer" spanning Hot VWs magazine from March- September of 2006

These are not exceptional instances, they are standard and expected from an engine that has received so much time, effort and developmental funding for the past 11 years.

Also, what kind of cooling is required for that 215hp beast? Can it be done with standard baffles and no fan?

The stock cooling system IS ADEQUATE for most climates, you can expect to need an external oil cooler for a multitude of reasons, but most 100% STOCK engines also need the same.. I do have our 914 DTM available if the stock system will not keep up, but effieicntly designed, properly tuned engines of 2300cc +/- generally run COOLER than stock!

Do a search here and on my forums for "quik914" he has version of this 2316cc engine in his 914 and is just amazed with it.
here is his car and the quote from his testimonial that is posted on my web page
(IMG:http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/customers/keats/Sideways.jpg)
Jake,

I am writing to let you know that you ROCK! The 2316 motor you made me
is a rocket! It spins fast, pulls hard to the red line and idles
smooth as silk. I want all of your prospective customers to know that
if they want the best air cooled motor in the world built for their
car, they can't go wrong with RAT. As they say, you get what you pay
for, and this could not be more true when dealing with RAT. You have
been great to work with, and it is refreshing to have the good old
fashioned customer service that seems to have fallen by the wayside in
todays' world. You have been honest, up front, and although my motor
took a little longer than planned, you always let me know what was
going on. When it came time to get the motor, I could not have been
happier. I have about 1500 miles on it now, and it still amazes me
every time I drive it. I took it to my first autocross, and it revs so
fast, I had to shift into 3rd where all the other cars were using 2nd.
I really have to be gentle with the right foot since it has so much
torque, I can easily roast the tires in a hard corner under load.

I have attached a picture of what happens if you use too much RAT power
in the middle of the turn. Keep up the great work. I will refer
anyone I know to you without hesitation. If they say it is too
expensive, I will tell them they can't afford NOT to use RAT!

Thanks again!

I would love to be included on your testimonial page, and I want you to
post my dyno run so all can see what MassIVe Power is all about. Had I
not been there to see it, I would probably not believe it, but it is
true!

Sincerely,


Michael Keats
Marietta, GA
1976 Porsche 914/916

More like this can be found at
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/customers/theysay.html

The big Type IV really is my favorite at this point. For simplicity, weight, etc... it just all makes sense.

There is a huge difference in a "Big 4" and a MassIVe 4.... At 2316cc the engine I have mentioned here is "medium displacement" and makes a great dual purpose driver/ AX/track engine... It'll run on 91 octane and provide the fun you want....

The price of admission is not for the faint of heart, but nothing worth a damn is free. The MassIVe 4 is a huge VALUE, the benefits of ownership can't be explained, they have to be experienced.