 The phantom 4th gear, Where did it go? |
|
|
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
|
  |
| BahnBrenner914 |
 May 16 2007, 08:40 PM
Post
#1
|
|
The girl is gone and all I have now is a beat-up teener  Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 22-May 04 From: Gig Harbor and University Place, WA :: School in Angola, IN :: girlfriend in Sarasota, FL Member No.: 2,094 Region Association: None  |
So this problem has been around since I bought this car almost 4 years ago. 4th gear is a phantom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) , there's nothing there, it just revs and revs and there's no drive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif) . We took the gear set out several times and there's no apparent problem inside the transaxle (the gear is actually there) and I've checked the bushings and replaced the one at the transaxle (the cup-like one).
It's a 76 2.0 with the side-shift unit |
   |
 
|
| BMXerror |
May 16 2007, 08:52 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,705 Joined: 8-April 06 From: Hesperia Ca Member No.: 5,842 |
|
|
|
|
| SGB |
May 16 2007, 09:42 PM
Post
#3
|
|
just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
have you tried messing with the shift lever attachment to the rod? Its just a 13 mm. I think you should loosen that puppy and pull it back a mm or so, then tighten it up. Experiment in very small incremnts- no more than acouple of splines left or right and only a mm or two front to back, but first try to pull it back a little and retighten so that the rod is pushed a little farther when pushing the lever toward 4th.
|
|
|
|
| mills914/s |
May 16 2007, 09:47 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 253 Joined: 23-December 06 From: Coeur D'Alene... IDAHO Member No.: 7,363 Region Association: Northern California |
Did you know that fourth gear is toward the front of the car? Just kidding buddy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
|
|
|
|
| SGB |
May 16 2007, 10:01 PM
Post
#5
|
|
just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(mills914/s @ May 16 2007, 10:47 PM)  Did you know that fourth gear is toward the front of the car? Just kidding buddy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) It isnt beyond me to get it screwy, but I think that is right. In order to get the rod to push the shift rod BACK into the fourth ger slot, its attachment under the pivot of the shift rod needs to move forward, so the lever is pulled back after it is loosened. Then after it is tightened,when the shifter is pushed forward, the linkage is puched back just a little farther. |
|
|
|
| BahnBrenner914 |
May 16 2007, 10:31 PM
Post
#6
|
|
The girl is gone and all I have now is a beat-up teener Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 22-May 04 From: Gig Harbor and University Place, WA :: School in Angola, IN :: girlfriend in Sarasota, FL Member No.: 2,094 Region Association: None |
I'll go try that, it felt like it was going really deep into 5th, so that could be an option. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
And as for 'puching' into gear, that doesnt sound like a good idea to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
|
|
|
| Dr Evil |
May 16 2007, 11:15 PM
Post
#7
|
|
Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
|
Are you sure you knew what you were looking at when looking at the stack? If your dog teeth are gone you will not have 4th, but the gear will still be there. Can you shift it at the tranny and see if it will stall the engine (= engauged gears)?
|
|
|
|
| BahnBrenner914 |
May 17 2007, 01:00 AM
Post
#8
|
|
The girl is gone and all I have now is a beat-up teener Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 22-May 04 From: Gig Harbor and University Place, WA :: School in Angola, IN :: girlfriend in Sarasota, FL Member No.: 2,094 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ May 16 2007, 10:15 PM) Can you shift it at the tranny and see if it will stall the engine (= engauged gears)? When I originally put the tranny back together and back in the car, I shifted it (I'm pretty sure into 4th and from under the car at the tranny) and pushed against the rear wheels and got engine compression (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) like I did with the other gears that work. So I think when I work on it tomorrow, I'll try shifting it into 4th at the tranny and if i can get it to engage there, I know I can adjust up at the shifter like others have suggested. Otherwise.... I dread the thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) , lets try this first. |
|
|
|
| Dr Evil |
May 17 2007, 11:42 AM
Post
#9
|
|
Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
Hmmm, then I would bet that you got some bushing or linkage issues as others have mentioned.
|
|
|
|
| Aaron Cox |
May 17 2007, 08:32 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
I think 4th gear is in your avatar's cleavage.....
|
|
|
|
| BahnBrenner914 |
May 17 2007, 08:32 PM
Post
#11
|
|
The girl is gone and all I have now is a beat-up teener Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 22-May 04 From: Gig Harbor and University Place, WA :: School in Angola, IN :: girlfriend in Sarasota, FL Member No.: 2,094 Region Association: None |
Well I was just out there fooling around with it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) . I jacked up the back end and got under and fooled around with the linkage right at the tranny and then fooled around some with the shifter up in the car....
From the tranny it seemed that I could get it into 4th or where it would be to get 4th. The rear wheels were still on the ground so i started it up and let out the clutch slowly to see if it'd choke out... nope, just like neutral (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) . So I messed around with the linkage at the shifter and tried to get it to go further right (or left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) ) and front to back to see if any position would get me 4th. It seemed as though I could nudge up against 4th, but it would just slip off but it would slip into some spot. started it up again and tried to choke it out.. nope, nothing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) . each time I shifted it into another gear (usually 5th) to make sure it would choke out and it did, so at least i'm not crazy... right? |
|
|
|
| Dr Evil |
May 17 2007, 08:48 PM
Post
#12
|
|
Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
Sounds like your 4th gear dog teeth are no more and your synchro band is nice and shiny. Time to pull the stack and have a look. Sorry for the bad news.
|
|
|
|
| BahnBrenner914 |
May 17 2007, 09:25 PM
Post
#13
|
|
The girl is gone and all I have now is a beat-up teener Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 22-May 04 From: Gig Harbor and University Place, WA :: School in Angola, IN :: girlfriend in Sarasota, FL Member No.: 2,094 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ May 17 2007, 07:48 PM) Sounds like your 4th gear dog teeth are no more and your synchro band is nice and shiny. Time to pull the stack and have a look. Sorry for the bad news. damn it, damn it, damn it!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) This deserves a full ten headbang salute. I guess this thread is over. I'll pull the stack once I get the engine running right (cause I can do that with 1-3) and see what the damage is, plus I might have money for parts then. |
|
|
|
| Dr Evil |
May 17 2007, 09:40 PM
Post
#14
|
|
Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
If 4th is shit then I would bet that 1st and 2nd are poo as well. Plan on either a full stack rebuild, or getting a core with less problems (gamble) and rebuilding that instead. We wont know until the stack comes out. Running it may lead to more damage as there are likely debris in the oil and the bearings may be either shot or on their last leg.
|
|
|
|
| SGB |
May 17 2007, 10:17 PM
Post
#15
|
|
just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
Having a car that shifts right is a thing of joy. Sounds like he's no stranger to swappin it out so if he could get anything on there to make a few more cross country trips while his was being rebuilt, that might be the plan... of course how many $100 901 trans can there be out there in Gig Harbor? I'd like to get him on down to Fla with a camera too. I'll start looking around for one. Yours is side shift? OK. Mike- you need a loaner program (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
edit- OK they would be in Angola, IN if they weren't all already stockpiled n Gig Harbor. |
|
|
|
| Dr Evil |
May 17 2007, 10:46 PM
Post
#16
|
|
Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
I may have two sources close to me, I just need motivation to look into it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Saves on shipping one way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)
|
|
|
|
| BahnBrenner914 |
May 17 2007, 11:44 PM
Post
#17
|
|
The girl is gone and all I have now is a beat-up teener Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 22-May 04 From: Gig Harbor and University Place, WA :: School in Angola, IN :: girlfriend in Sarasota, FL Member No.: 2,094 Region Association: None |
Wow, you guys are helpful. I talked to my Dad, my mechanical mentor (since he used to work in 'the shop' back in germany in the early 80s) on VW's and even a few 914s! And when we had the tranny out he checked all the parts and didnt notice any chewed up synchros or dogteeth or we would have replaced them.
So what other options do we have for the phantom gear? before I rip the car to pieces again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) As for Indiana and Florida, the porsche has been around here in washington the whole time I've owned it and it wont visit any of those places for a while I think ( I can barely drive it around the block!) . |
|
|
|
| Dr Evil |
May 18 2007, 12:00 AM
Post
#18
|
|
Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
Well, here is the deal man:
The gears are ALWAYS meshed together The slider may be missing teeth and may be why you are not getting gears. Why? Because when selecting gears, the slider is engauged onto the dog teeth. The dog teeth are ALWAYS engauged to their perspective gears. So, in order for you to get the problem that you are having, AND have it be inside the box, you need to have a failure at either the dog teeth, or the slider. If you say all of these are in good order then it must be OUTSIDE of the gear box. It will not likely be the selector fork because you can still get 5th (R-1, 2-3, 4-5) meaning that the slider has one good side and the fork is pushing the slider around. It isnt the shifter comb because you can select 5th. Same concept as above. A bald slider looks just fine, but should have teeth on it. It is not uncommon for 4th or 2nd to lose the teeth only on that side of their perspective sliders. I have seen it more than once. It comes from improper allignment on assembly. I am still betting that you have a toothless 4th slider. If you can get 5th then your linkage is probably ok, and your checks outside of the tranny prove this. <chant with me now> Pull the stack! Pull the stack! Pull the stack! |
|
|
|
| BahnBrenner914 |
May 18 2007, 01:11 AM
Post
#19
|
|
The girl is gone and all I have now is a beat-up teener Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 22-May 04 From: Gig Harbor and University Place, WA :: School in Angola, IN :: girlfriend in Sarasota, FL Member No.: 2,094 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ May 17 2007, 11:00 PM) <chant with me now> Pull the stack! Pull the stack! Pull the stack! OK OK (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) I'm starting to lose enough hope to believe you... But I'm getting the engine in working order first, that fair enough for you? |
|
|
|
| Dr Evil |
May 18 2007, 01:19 AM
Post
#20
|
|
Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
No problem for me, my tranny is perfect (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 14th May 2024 - 11:35 AM |
Invision Power Board
v9.1.4 © 2024 IPS, Inc.