Need Limited slip diff, I WANT MORE TRACTION Options

[SirAndy]

Get all 4 to stay on the ground, then worry about LSDs.

i sort of agree ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

them sticky tires can be scary ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Andy

[J P Stein]

Anyways it's not me you're disagreeing with, it's my dad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Is there a rule against that?

Greg Fordahl recommend a TB diff to me and he uses one.
Should you guys beat him with a clutch pack type at Parade, I may listen to your dad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Chris Hamilton]

Is the a rule against that?

Greg Fordahl recommend a TB diff to me and he uses one.
Should you guys beat him with a clutch pack type at Parade, I may listen to your dad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No rule against it, but I think he knows a bit about what he's talking about. People who enlist his services historically end up winning nearly every single race in their particular series.

We shall see how the parade pans out. We're going to be there for TTOD. I don't know this Greg Fordahl, but I have met Mr. Tom Provasi, and with the old hundred horse 2.0L in the blue car we took TTOD away from him at marina a couple times. Now we've got a whole lot more power, we've tweaked the car a bit, and with this limited slip I'm hoping luck goes our way.

The parade is an interesting change in format for us though because it looks like we won't get very many runs, and they will be spaced way apart. I don't know whether this will work to our advantage or disadvantage, but I do know one thing:

We're gonna have a whole lot of fun finding out in the hot san diego sun. That's what all this is about anyways, nobody's getting any money out of it or anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
( except maybe the wise person that sponsors our car )

[jhadler]

... I don't know this Greg Fordahl,...

Uhm... 5 time Solo Nationals Champion. Builder and sponsor of more than a couple of a winning professional racing Porsches.

Has won in both tail draggers as well as his stupendous 914-6. I take it you dont' swim in the SCCA pool very much? Can't really drive a Porsche in SCCA without hearing the Fordahl name. And his wife (Jodi) has even more championships to her name than he does.

Having seen both Tom and Greg in action, I think I'd have to give the nod to Greg, but not by much...

-Josh2

[Chris Pincetich]

Oh yeah - I got $5 that says the NorCal blue #100 wins at Parade AX (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Joe Ricard]

Parade? Really, how can an event called Parade be fast?
We have Parades here in the Gulf Coast... You know around Mardi Gras. Big float and people throw beads off of them.

SCCA is whee the fast guys are and they don't drive Porsches except for a scattered GT3 here and there.

[brant]

I said I was going to stay out of bicker fests...
oh well...


I've got to add my 2cents.
Paul Guard admitted to me himself that there are and can be situations where a TB diff can and is faster in a road race car than a clutch pack diff.

also, my mechanic who none of you know.. has done back to back testing on a road course. He only tells the really fast guys that the TB is better.

I've run open, locked, and TB but can't say that I've yet run a clutch type since I chose the TB over it.

[Chris Hamilton]

It's interesting that we have disagreement here. That's what makes this whole racing thing so fun. If there was only one right way to do it we'd only have a spending contest on our hands.

[Joe Ricard]

Well so far this is not a bickering thread. So I am going to keep it going.
I would like to get back on topic a bit.

The combination to make an AUTOCROSS car go around a corner faster including corner exit would be TB diff, 275lb springs rear sway bar
Heavy rebound shocks. Snug up the front bar and leave the 21mm torsion bars with 8610 1437 race Koni's

Oh and more power.

[J P Stein]

With the 275 lb rear springs, you don't want a rear sway bar.

[ConeDodger]

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?

[DanT]

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?

yep (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) another kettle of fish. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

look at NASCAR, (sorry), they are all on the same track and the drivers use widely different setups.
some like it softer, some like it tighter, some do it with bars, some do it with shocks and springs....
it is a total combination of driver AND car.

Jeff Reitmeir has like 8 SCCA championships, some in the now Nieslony 914 and some in a BMW M3 and some in a 924S IIRC.
I tend to listen to him alot when he talks about setups and driving techinques.
right now the #100 has a strangle hold on TTOD in Zone 7 but Parade is a much different animal...only about 3 runs and Provasi has proven time and again that he can get a very quick time in only a few runs.
Plus his car is really a track set up....
Can't say that about the "Smurf".
If it is a high speed long course my money goes on Provasi.
Tight techincal course goes to the Hamilton Racing #100.


Years ago we had quite a few highly modified 914s similar to Provasi's.
several with 3.4L crank fired, tube framed, race tired monsters.
And they would run against the Newlin's extremely light 4 cylinder 914 race car.
Most times the big motored cars would win, but the Newlin car was always close and sometimes would take TTOD on tighter technical courses.
Big wide open courses go to the big horsepowered cars, almost always with equal driving.

[grantsfo]

Is the a rule against that?

Greg Fordahl recommend a TB diff to me and he uses one.
Should you guys beat him with a clutch pack type at Parade, I may listen to your dad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No rule against it, but I think he knows a bit about what he's talking about. People who enlist his services historically end up winning nearly every single race in their particular series.

We shall see how the parade pans out. We're going to be there for TTOD. I don't know this Greg Fordahl, but I have met Mr. Tom Provasi, and with the old hundred horse 2.0L in the blue car we took TTOD away from him at marina a couple times. Now we've got a whole lot more power, we've tweaked the car a bit, and with this limited slip I'm hoping luck goes our way.

The parade is an interesting change in format for us though because it looks like we won't get very many runs, and they will be spaced way apart. I don't know whether this will work to our advantage or disadvantage, but I do know one thing:

We're gonna have a whole lot of fun finding out in the hot san diego sun. That's what all this is about anyways, nobody's getting any money out of it or anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
( except maybe the wise person that sponsors our car )

Ihave my doubts about the hamilton being a parade winning car after running against it recently. With poor running car and very tired dot tires my car has been within two seconds. With race rubber and carb issues worked out I think my very basic car with a good driver could equal the hamilton car on a fast course.

A fast 3.6 car will be my pick at parade based on seeing the "improved" hamilton car run.

It would be interesting to see how the hamilton car would do on dot rubber. Typically its the only car running race slicks at our local pca events.

[J P Stein]

It would be interesting to see how the hamilton car would do on dot rubber. Typically its the only car running race slicks at our local pca events.

Better still, get some slicks on your car ..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ottox914]

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?

Randy Williams, and he's still stupid fast. I think in a shopping cart with one stuck wheel he'd still kick most of our butts.

[grantsfo]

Better still, get some slicks on your car ..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That is the goal. Locally we need to get more lightweight modified cars to run rather than letting Hamilton Racing and Andrew beat up on big heavy street and DOT rubber cars. My driving isnt as good as Andrews, but I always pull out at least one decent run during the day. The Pirate car was less than a half second off Steve N's car at the Zone event on old 710's. So I think with real slicks the car might just have a chance when I'm on the right course. I'm going to look at fenders that will allow for wider rear tires.

Its all good stuff! I just wish we could get Randal and Bill out in their real fast cars. My car on DOT tires agaisnt Hamiltion racing is like bringing a musket to an automatic weapon fight (my car is a momentum car without the stick) More competition certainly creates an enviroment where everyone trys harder. I know I'm trying much harder now that I have TTOD in sight. I have to say last year I could not realistically hope for TTOD. Last season the closest I got to Hamilton time was about 4 to 6 seconds. This year its in about 1.75 to 3 second range on same tires and suspension I ran last year. Only difference is motor and the car is down to 1850lbs now from about 1950lbs.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: May 25 2007, 11:15 PM

[ConeDodger]

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?

Randy Williams, and he's still stupid fast. I think in a shopping cart with one stuck wheel he'd still kick most of our butts.

LOL!!! I had a vision of one wheel wagging back and forth... Even his girlfriend was faster than most of the guys...
Don Gettinger still around? How about Charles Hoffman?

[Joe Ricard]

Yada Yada yada.
See page 66 of the June Sports car. See anybody you know?

Ok for all you guys that swim in little ponds it says " Board Member Hassan Malik led 48 drivers with FTD run in Joe Ricard's XP 914. This also was a PAX win.


Got 300's for the rear springs yesterday I suspect I'll have to bump up the front sway bar now.

[J P Stein]

Got 300's for the rear springs yesterday I suspect I'll have to bump up the front sway bar now.

Heh.....I suspect you're right and as I wrote, ditch the rear bar. The only 914 I've driven that actually lifted the rear inside tire had a rear bar.....That caused some mid turn cussin'.

"First, do no harm" is from the hippocratic oath, but could well apply to selecting parts for your 914.....at least for those of us on a limited budget. I've made a few mistakes along these lines.....fortunately with no lasting financial effects, but forced to run an
AX season with the mistake.

My foray into 10in wide front wheels & slicks is a good example.....that's where I learned about scrub radius.....a lesson that was pounded in the whole season (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Nobody told me I was making a mistake and therein lies the rub when going to slicks on a 914. Few folks in my circle of friends have been there.
When someone like Mr Fordahl (whose resume includes crew chief & suspension set-up guru for Job Racing's ALMS GT2 cars) gives me advise, I listen.

[ottox914]

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?

Randy Williams, and he's still stupid fast. I think in a shopping cart with one stuck wheel he'd still kick most of our butts.

LOL!!! I had a vision of one wheel wagging back and forth... Even his girlfriend was faster than most of the guys...
Don Gettinger still around? How about Charles Hoffman?

Randy split up w/her before I joined the club, 6-7 yrs ago.

Don is still around and driving the second oldest car in the club, his '64 vett. The oldest car is a '59 bug eye sprite on slicks that comes and goes on a trailer, as does Don's '64. I have the next oldest car with my '73 914, and the oldest car that comes and goes under its own power. There is also a '73 Opel GT, but it also travels by trailer. There was a '70 914 for a couple seasons, but that guy, (Dave-O) scored a ride with an STU M3 and the 914 is now a commuter.

Club has grown a ton. We now regularly run 150+ cars for 6 runs each at events. We have a big cube van and dedicated timing trailer for set up and storage. At any given event there are at least 6-10 past national trophy winners in the grid, along with at least 1 wearing the jacket. Its a tough crowd to impress these days.

No Charles Hoffman since I've been around.