 Announcing New Caliper Restoration Service, sparked by #11 and Al's LE set... |
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Model Specific Information
914/4: 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 914/6: 70 71 72
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| Eric_Shea |
 Jul 7 2007, 02:10 PM
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#1
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PMB Performance  Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains   |
Hi Gang,
I'm going to go too far into details because I've posted enough threads on caliper restoration however, we're going to follow along with Johny B's (no... not Brandmeier... our very own "You can call me Al" Johny B.) caliper restoration for show cars. We've decided to offer this as a service to those who "must" have authentic calipers for their cars. It will be $325.00 per pair fronts or rears. The idea is to literally restore the entire caliper so it will pass strict judging criteria. This means, new handbrake arm seals and black oxide/oiled fasteners. Let's start with the handbrake seal. On a standard rebuild the handbrake seal is usually not needed. The entire caliper gets plated with the arm in place. You get a one color caliper. This saves a great deal of money as the seal kits have been $49.00 each (we've found a new source and we now sell them for $29.00 each). Even at those prices, it is usually best, for a standard rebuild, to find a core that doesn't need the extra parts. Why? Decent Core = $25.00 (or less) each... Seal Kit = $29.00 each. For this style of restoration we need to have the caliper body yellow and the handbrake arm clear. So... it's a necessity. Now... black oxide and oiled fasteners will give the original appearance. Again, with a standard rebuild the 7mm fasteners (which are almost impossible to find) are plated with yellow zinc. To be factory correct we need the fasteners to be black. Again, this costs more money but will net the proper results. In the end, these will look like brand new ATE calipers from the factory. So... on to this rebuild. This car has fewer than 50k miles on it. I believe Al stated "they don't need to be rebuild but they need to have the finish correct"... surprising what happens as a car sits. These were actually fairly rough more in terms of what I expected off such a low mileage car. Fronts - The right front caliper was stuck. It took some good doing to get the pistons out. The left was fine. There was also evidence that someone else had rebuilt the fronts at one time. The right front inner piston has the tell-tale chips on the piston edge. The pads appear to be the second set as they don't match the rears (which I believe to be original) and they actually have "more" pad material left on them compared to the rears (usually the other way around on a balanced set as the fronts do most of the work.) The through bolts were OK but one was fairly rusty. The brake fluid was old but otherwise, these were in very good shape. Rears - The left rear was rough. The pin was actually stuck/rusted in the caliper. We had to tear the entire caliper apart to break it loose. I bent two drifts trying to get it out before I decided to simply leave it in and tear the caliper down around it. We know there are spiders where Al lives. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Again, fasteners were in good shape with a little bit of internal rust on some. The rear pad springs are probably unsalvageable for this application. One spring fell apart in my hands. So... there's all the gruesome tales about what can happen to 50k mile calipers. The car may be pampered but, always look for tell-tale signs (braking to one side, hotter than normal caliper temps, brake pad smell etc.) of stuck pistons. Here are some pics... next we'll show the plated units then the final assembly. Fronts:  Rears:  Front fasteners. The rusted one was stuck in the housing:  Piston with a small bit of dust cover cap damage:  Spidey's!:  Stuck rear pin:  Rear fasteners with some more internal rust:  |
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| Johny Blackstain |
 Jul 7 2007, 02:53 PM
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#2
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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| Johny Blackstain |
 Jul 7 2007, 02:59 PM
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#3
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Eric- considering the condition of the insides would you recommend replacement of the master cylinder? I have a 19mm laying around, NOS. What about the rear proportioning valve? Thanks.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) BTW- the rebuild was my Pop back in 1976. |
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 7 2007, 03:07 PM
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#4
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
No and nope... For that car, you may want to replace the M/C but find a NOS 17mm or wait until that one goes bad. The pistons came out fine (basically) I think this is the first the rears have been touched.
I've "never" seen a proportioning valve go bad. |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jul 7 2007, 03:38 PM
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#5
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 7 2007, 03:48 PM
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#6
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jul 7 2007, 07:53 PM
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#7
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Those calipers are the result of 4 years of daily driving in Washington DC between 1974 & 1978, 1 road trip from Atlanta to DC, a little fair weather put-putting around & 29 years of sitting. Eric how do you feel about DOT-5, especially w/ East Coast humidity?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) |
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| Pat Garvey |
 Jul 7 2007, 08:15 PM
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#8
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Do I or don't I...........? Group: Members Posts: 5,899 Joined: 24-March 06 From: SE PA, near Philly Member No.: 5,765 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Jul 7 2007, 02:10 PM)  Hi Gang, I'm going to go too far into details because I've posted enough threads on caliper restoration however, we're going to follow along with Johny B's (no... not Brandmeier... our very own "You can call me Al" Johny B.) caliper restoration for show cars. We've decided to offer this as a service to those who "must" have authentic calipers for their cars. It will be $325.00 per pair fronts or rears. The idea is to literally restore the entire caliper so it will pass strict judging criteria. This means, new handbrake arm seals and black oxide/oiled fasteners. Let's start with the handbrake seal. On a standard rebuild the handbrake seal is usually not needed. The entire caliper gets plated with the arm in place. You get a one color caliper. This saves a great deal of money as the seal kits have been $49.00 each (we've found a new source and we now sell them for $29.00 each). Even at those prices, it is usually best, for a standard rebuild, to find a core that doesn't need the extra parts. Why? Decent Core = $25.00 (or less) each... Seal Kit = $29.00 each. For this style of restoration we need to have the caliper body yellow and the handbrake arm clear. So... it's a necessity. Now... black oxide and oiled fasteners will give the original appearance. Again, with a standard rebuild the 7mm fasteners (which are almost impossible to find) are plated with yellow zinc. To be factory correct we need the fasteners to be black. Again, this costs more money but will net the proper results. In the end, these will look like brand new ATE calipers from the factory. So... on to this rebuild. This car has fewer than 50k miles on it. I believe Al stated "they don't need to be rebuild but they need to have the finish correct"... surprising what happens as a car sits. These were actually fairly rough more in terms of what I expected off such a low mileage car. Fronts - The right front caliper was stuck. It took some good doing to get the pistons out. The left was fine. There was also evidence that someone else had rebuilt the fronts at one time. The right front inner piston has the tell-tale chips on the piston edge. The pads appear to be the second set as they don't match the rears (which I believe to be original) and they actually have "more" pad material left on them compared to the rears (usually the other way around on a balanced set as the fronts do most of the work.) The through bolts were OK but one was fairly rusty. The brake fluid was old but otherwise, these were in very good shape. Rears - The left rear was rough. The pin was actually stuck/rusted in the caliper. We had to tear the entire caliper apart to break it loose. I bent two drifts trying to get it out before I decided to simply leave it in and tear the caliper down around it. We know there are spiders where Al lives. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Again, fasteners were in good shape with a little bit of internal rust on some. The rear pad springs are probably unsalvageable for this application. One spring fell apart in my hands. So... there's all the gruesome tales about what can happen to 50k mile calipers. The car may be pampered but, always look for tell-tale signs (braking to one side, hotter than normal caliper temps, brake pad smell etc.) of stuck pistons. Here are some pics... next we'll show the plated units then the final assembly. Fronts: Rears: Front fasteners. The rusted one was stuck in the housing: Piston with a small bit of dust cover cap damage: Spidey's!: Stuck rear pin: Rear fasteners with some more internal rust: Whoa! Those are ugly! Hope you don't find any problems like that when you get mine this fall. Shouldn't, cause mine are purty right now - just want the safe & a little better looking. Al, you had this coming! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) Pat |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jul 7 2007, 09:15 PM
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#9
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Jul 7 2007, 10:15 PM) "And, it's all in good fun, though your brakes really suck! Pat" Whoa! Those are ugly! Not for long (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) |
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 15 2007, 01:34 PM
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#10
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
QUOTE Not for long (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)! Indeed. Skippy's parts came back from the platers and we got everything together that we could while waiting for the fasteners to get the proper black threatment. Rear Parts:  Front Parts:  Here's what makes the difference on this type of restoration. In this shot you can see the clear zinc arms against the yellow zinc body. You can also see the new welch plug and the new outer adjuster with the clear lock nut:  Rears assembled. Nice outer adjuster covers:  Fronts assembled waiting the fasteners. Note the new mounting locks and the new piston positioners. These also come with new 19mm bolts for mounting:  |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jul 15 2007, 02:31 PM
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#12
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Eric- DOT 5 OK?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) BTW- WOW! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif) |
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 15 2007, 07:11 PM
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#13
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Those be yours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Sorry... forgot the DOT question. Because the systems was designed for glycol based fluids I tend to like high performaing DOT4 or... DOT5.1 (which should be the glycol equivelant of a DOT5) DOT5's or silicone fluids can aerate fairly easily and they really don't have many true advantages over good glycols. We're also not sure what long term affect DOT5 will have on the current brake system with it's seals from 1970 etc. DOT4's and 5's don't always play well together. Mix the two and you'll get an interesting sludge. My advice... get a good DOT 4 or 5.1 and make sure you keep it off your paint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jul 15 2007, 08:29 PM
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#14
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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I have a big can of the blue ATE fluid. It's old, but never been opened. Don't know the DOT either. Have to go look. Or should I go get some DOT 4?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jul 15 2007, 09:01 PM
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#16
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Jul 15 2007, 10:30 PM) Nice binders! Think you can get all that back on properly? JK! Pat & they are noice (that's Philly speak). Mine get done this fall, by Eric. See you in Charlotte? Pat That is the plan because this CW stuff is killing me & my wallet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) . Bad news is George is going to be there w/ his freshly restored LE & I'll probably have to compete against that goddess. Thank God & the assembly line for my tan interior (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ! Can't wait to send Eric my brakes for the six- performance & functionality are the goals there, not concours restoration. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) |
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 15 2007, 10:07 PM
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#17
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
QUOTE I have a big can of the blue ATE fluid. It's old, but never been opened. Don't know the DOT either. Have to go look. Or should I go get some DOT 4? I'd start over. Depending on how old it could be bad already. It's fairly caustic. |
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| Pat Garvey |
Jul 16 2007, 09:33 PM
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#18
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Do I or don't I...........? Group: Members Posts: 5,899 Joined: 24-March 06 From: SE PA, near Philly Member No.: 5,765 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Jul 15 2007, 10:07 PM) QUOTE I have a big can of the blue ATE fluid. It's old, but never been opened. Don't know the DOT either. Have to go look. Or should I go get some DOT 4? I'd start over. Depending on how old it could be bad already. It's fairly caustic. Agree! Could (maybe WOULD) turn out to be really bad stuff. Pitch it & start with fresh. It's like pain products - when it's shot - it's bad! Can be REALLY bad. Pitch it & start over. Pat |
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 30 2007, 08:25 PM
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#19
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
All done and ready to bolt on.
Rears:  This shows the arm and the fasteners:  Fronts:  |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jul 30 2007, 08:41 PM
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#20
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Would I get knocked @ CdE if I covered those things in clear-coat brake paint? I'm not joking I want to clear the hell out of those things so they look that way for the rest of my life! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
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