 Painting intake tubes, Does color make a difference? |
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| retrofit |
 Jul 9 2007, 11:51 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 17-April 04 From: Turlock,Ca Member No.: 1,943  |
Is there any evidence that painted EFI intake tubes will make the engine run hotter/cooler depending on the color?
Over at 914 groups someone posted that when he painted his intake tubes black the engine ran 20* hotter. So if you paint the tubes a light color (reflective, not absorbing heat?) it will run the same or, cooler? I have seen nicely detailed engine bays where the plenum and intake was painted the body color. Could this be a functiional mistake? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| DanT |
Jul 10 2007, 12:14 AM
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#2
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(retrofit @ Jul 9 2007, 10:51 PM)  Is there any evidence that painted EFI intake tubes will make the engine run hotter/cooler depending on the color? Over at 914 groups someone posted that when he painted his intake tubes black the engine ran 20* hotter. So if you paint the tubes a light color (reflective, not absorbing heat?) it will run the same or, cooler? I have seen nicely detailed engine bays where the plenum and intake was painted the body color. Could this be a functiional mistake? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Attached image(s)  
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| messix |
Jul 10 2007, 12:19 AM
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#3
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
DUH! yellow is faster! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)
i doubt it would make any measurable difference. |
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| Johny Blackstain |
 Jul 10 2007, 07:17 AM
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#4
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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Does'nt make sense to me. How could black affect the engine temp... there's no light in there? Color affects temp on a visual basis, not a mechanical one. Put a black 914 & a white 914 in the sun the black one will get hotter. Put them in the shade & the temp stays the same. Perhaps it was the content /makeup of the black spray paint he used? No insulation value from the engine heat?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) |
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| Krieger |
Jul 10 2007, 08:41 AM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 24-May 04 From: Santa Rosa CA Member No.: 2,104 Region Association: None
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From the factory they are painted. Maybe someone ceramic coated them. Oh but that would keep heat out, as the runners are bolted to the heads with a plastic block insulating between it and the head. Horsecrap, oh wait maybe he forgot those phenolic blocks/spacers when he reinstalled.
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| toon1 |
Jul 10 2007, 11:35 AM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 29-October 05 From: tracy,ca Member No.: 5,022 |
the person who stated that needs to put down the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
I noticed my car ran cooler when I replaced the muffler bearing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 10 2007, 11:49 AM
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#7
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(retrofit @ Jul 9 2007, 09:51 PM) Is there any evidence that painted EFI intake tubes will make the engine run hotter/cooler depending on the color? Over at 914 groups someone posted that when he painted his intake tubes black the engine ran 20* hotter. So if you paint the tubes a light color (reflective, not absorbing heat?) it will run the same or, cooler? I have seen nicely detailed engine bays where the plenum and intake was painted the body color. Could this be a functiional mistake? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) yes. flat black is the worst as it absorbs heat much better than, let's say a bright and shiny white ... flat black runners will get warmer by absorbing more heat from the engine compartement ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 10 2007, 11:52 AM
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#8
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Johny Blackstain @ Jul 10 2007, 05:17 AM) no light in there? Color affects temp on a visual basis nice try, but no dice ... heat *is* light. just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. your (mine, humans in general) range of vision is very limited. there's much more light than what *we* can see. flat black does not care about what you or i can see. it'll absorb surrounding heat much better than a lighter color ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy |
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| So.Cal.914 |
Jul 10 2007, 12:05 PM
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#9
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"...And it has a front trunk too." Group: Members Posts: 6,588 Joined: 15-February 04 From: Low Desert, CA./ Hills of N.J. Member No.: 1,658 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 10 2007, 10:52 AM) QUOTE(Johny Blackstain @ Jul 10 2007, 05:17 AM) no light in there? Color affects temp on a visual basis nice try, but no dice ... heat *is* light. just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. your (mine, humans in general) range of vision is very limited. there's much more light than what *we* can see. flat black does not care about what you or i can see. it'll absorb surrounding heat much better than a lighter color ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy Good response, interesting point. |
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| Demick |
Jul 10 2007, 12:05 PM
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#10
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Ernie made me do it! Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,312 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Pleasanton, CA Member No.: 257  |
Andy is right.
In theory, the black runners will absorb more heat. But in practice, you will not see a measurable difference in engine or intake air temperature based on the color of the intake runners. |
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| toon1 |
Jul 10 2007, 12:16 PM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 29-October 05 From: tracy,ca Member No.: 5,022 |
If i put two parts in an oven, one white and one black, and turned the oven to 140* (engine bay temps)you are telling me the black part would be hotter!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Keith (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif) |
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| brer |
Jul 10 2007, 12:24 PM
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#12
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,555 Joined: 10-March 05 From: san diego Member No.: 3,736 Region Association: None |
heat is radiation.
I believe they were painted a lighter color intentionally, and should not be painted black, but light grey or even white. they reside over the black cooling tins which give off a large amount of radiant heat. flat black has a 1:1 absorptance/emmittance ratio meaing it absobs as much as it gives off. white on the other hand is 1:4 ratio meaning it gives off 4 time more than it absorbs which translates into a REAL WORLD decrease in its working temp. Its known as "temperature of equillibrium" this is measureable stuff not theory. |
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| brer |
Jul 10 2007, 12:26 PM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,555 Joined: 10-March 05 From: san diego Member No.: 3,736 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(toon1 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:16 AM) If i put two parts in an oven, one white and one black, and turned the oven to 140* (engine bay temps)you are telling me the black part would be hotter!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Keith (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif) the black part will reach temp faster. equillibrium has alot to do with exposure. |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 10 2007, 12:38 PM
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#14
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(brer @ Jul 10 2007, 10:26 AM) QUOTE(toon1 @ Jul 10 2007, 11:16 AM) If i put two parts in an oven, one white and one black, and turned the oven to 140* (engine bay temps)you are telling me the black part would be hotter!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) the black part will reach temp faster. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) simple physics ... |
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| toon1 |
Jul 10 2007, 12:45 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 29-October 05 From: tracy,ca Member No.: 5,022 |
interesting, good thing I am gong with chrome P coat on my intake runners. Not only will they run cooler ,my car will go faster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| Demick |
Jul 10 2007, 01:08 PM
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#16
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Ernie made me do it! Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,312 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Pleasanton, CA Member No.: 257 |
Once again, yes the black runners will absorb more heat.
But the question was, does the paint color make a real difference to engine or intake air temperatures. To answer this, the question becomes, how much more heat will the black runners absorb? Within the engine bay, and given the area of each runner, I would estimate that we are talking about less than 2 watts of power (per runner) difference between black and white runners (really I think it's less than 1 watt). Anyway, the runners have relatively cool air running inside them. A 2L engine at 3000 rpm pulls around 50 CFM of air through each runner. With this volume of air, it will take ~16 watts of power to heat that air by 1 degree C. So you can see that at 2 watts, or even 5 or 10 watts difference, you would only be heating the intake air by a fraction of a degree. Hence, paint your intake runners any color you want. |
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| brer |
Jul 10 2007, 01:28 PM
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#17
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,555 Joined: 10-March 05 From: san diego Member No.: 3,736 Region Association: None |
the radiant source is the engine tin which is signficantly hotter than the engine bay temp especially sitting in traffic. sitting at idle in traffic I would wager your pipes would get rather hot, so why speed up the process ? just my opinion, feel free to blow up your motor with the wrong color paint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| toon1 |
Jul 10 2007, 01:37 PM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 29-October 05 From: tracy,ca Member No.: 5,022 |
blow up your motor with the wrong color paint!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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| Demick |
Jul 10 2007, 01:38 PM
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#19
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Ernie made me do it! Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,312 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Pleasanton, CA Member No.: 257 |
Wow. This thead has taken an interesting turn.
The factory decided to put the stock 2L engine air intake in a location where it draws in air that is more than 50 degrees F hotter than the outside air. Yet, apparantly, they also painted the intake runners a light color to prevent further heating this air by a fraction of a degree. And this fraction of a degree will blow up your motor if you paint your intake runners with the wrong color! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) |
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