914 Event Car Judging, let's hear your thoughts Options

[ConeDodger]

In theory, ConeDodgers' classification approaches PCAs' categories. Certainly workable.

The minefield that we will be entering here will be how to deduct points for un-originality. Does an aftermarket s/w lose points as much as a 4 cyl carb system? Will a 914 with a CD player lose more or less points than a car with an A/M muffler? Does a 5 bolt conversion on a 4 cyl offset a 914 with 911 paint on it? How many points are lost with a Scheel seat.....the same point loss as 195/60 tires? When does (dirty/rusty/worn) originality trump a fresh/pristine/"improved" restoration.

I think if you play hardball with originality, with all the "improved" cars that I've seen on this site and at a club event, there could be a lot of sore and unhappy people. Scoring for all the upgrades on these cars could get very confusing and cumbersome.

I think a further categorization would be an "improved" class, permitting PORSCHE factory upgrades that could include 5 bolt hub upgrades, tires that fit within stock fenders, Euro lenses, OEM wheel, etc.

This won't be easy.

Paul

I think the real difference between what I have proposed and what the PCA does is that we don't have no stinkin' uptight judges with white gloves looking for hair in the carpet... Use the classes but still make it a people's choice event.

[dgw]

Fewer classes are better. Something like:

914/6 - real vin
914/4
work in progress, most cosmetically challenged but running
anything modified: engine, body work, etc

The cleanest cars win. Originality is a crock and should be avoided to the extent possible, as it will only produce endless arguments.

I used to hang with a 356 nut who won a Manhattan at Parade one year. These guys used to rag on the judges constantly for deducting originality points. The general consensus of the entrants was the judges couldn't find their ass with both hands. Of course the judges had a different opinion.

[Rusty]

Mark,

These were the rules we used in MUSR 2002. There were no complaints about the classes, etc.

Mid US Ramble 2002 Car Show Rules

1. The car show judging will start promptly at 10:30 am. The Car Show Chair will notify owners 5 minutes prior to the time judging begins. Only light dusting is allowed once judging begins. Cars for all classes except Elegance de la Ramble will be judged by car show entrants. Elegance de la Ramble judging is described below.

2. Cars will not be shown in the same area they are prepared. Owners will move their cars into the appropriate areas prior to the start of the show. All cars will be parked together by class (e.g. all Stock 914/4s together, etc). Class parking will be clearly marked.

3. The following classes will be considered: Stock 914-4, Stock 914-6, Modified 914-4, Modified 914-6 or 914-8, Best Daily Driver, Dirtiest Engine Bay, Best of Show (People's Choice), Elegance de la Ramble (optional entry) Judging.

4. The show will cover two general categories: Stock and Modified. Cars should be judged based on quality in following categories: Exterior, Interior, Engine, and Cardex (and other accompanying documents).

5. Owners may volunteer to remove caps, lids or covers for judges, provided no tools are required. Doors, hoods, etc, may be opened as the owner desires to show the car. All engine lids should be open. The car show will be top-side and engine bay only judging. No undercarriages will be included in judging.

6. The criteria for consideration as the Best Daily Driver will be a car that is driven a minimum of 4000 miles per year. (Honor system)

7. Any one of the following items will place a car immediately into Modified Class:
a. /6 or /8 cylinder engine conversion
b. Modification of body beyond factory design, to include a partial installation of a 914/6 GT kit (GT fenders, flares & rockers)
c. Conversion of the inductions system (to/from carbs)
d. 5-lug wheel conversions

8. Any three of the following modifications to the same car will place it into a Modified class:
a. Color change
b. Non-stock wheels (Fuchs, Mahle, Pedrini or steel)
c. Addition of duct work for cooling
d. Brake conversion (i.e. to BMW 325i brakes)
e. Significant interior changes: (i.e. ”Getty Dash”, electronic gauge package, stripped interior.)
f. Stock bumper conversion (i.e. 1970 bumpers on a 1976 car)
g. Cup holders ;-)

10. The “Elegance de la Ramble” (Elegance) Class is an optional class, judged under PCA National Concours Rules by a panel of three judges. An owner must specify during registration if (s)he would like to enter the Elegance Class. The Elegance class judges will judge cars according to originality and restoration. They will grade the same areas on the same categories listed in Rule 3. In the Elegance Class, the judges’ decisions are final.

11. At registration, owners will be responsible for placing their cars into an appropriate class. Assistance will be available during registration and on the first day after registration if there are any questions or concerns. Any protests should be brought to the Car Show Chair prior to the end of the show. The decision of the Car Show Chair, after consultation with the Elegance Judges, shall be final.

[Rusty]

More thoughts:

1. Have enough rules & structure to make it official... but not so many it becomes a burden. This should be fun.
2. We had first, second & third awards for the 914-4s. First and second for the 914-6s. Attendants judged EVERY class except for the Elegance class.
3. More classes means more opportunity for folks to win. I don't generally believe that everyone who competes should win something (like most kids sports), but who wouldn't want to take a trophy home for their efforts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
4. Trying to do the car show during a rain-storm kind of eliminates the "light dusting" issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)
5. It should all be done in fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

[Toast]

How about Best STOCK 4/6.

It takes alot of money to keep them stock too ya know.

(part of the reason why I dont want to drive my 914 events anymore)

[Jasfsmith]

Mark,

These were the rules we used in MUSR 2002. There were no complaints about the classes, etc.

Mid US Ramble 2002 Car Show Rules

3. The following classes will be considered: Stock 914-4, Stock 914-6, Modified 914-4, Modified 914-6 or 914-8, Best Daily Driver, Dirtiest Engine Bay, Best of Show (People's Choice), Elegance de la Ramble (optional entry) Judging.

My only suggestion would be to change the word "Stock" to "Preservation" (where originality is the thing), "Modified" to "Restored/Modified" (where originality is not of prime importance, cleanilness is) and add a class called "Restoration" (where quality of restoration to original equipment spec is prime).

[Rusty]

They were general categories... although my votes usually go to nicely preserved cars, there was no official emphasis on preservation, especially if you can have two of the following options and still be considered "generally stock"

8. Any three of the following modifications to the same car will place it into a Modified class:
a. Color change
b. Non-stock wheels (Fuchs, Mahle, Pedrini or steel)
c. Addition of duct work for cooling
d. Brake conversion (i.e. to BMW 325i brakes)
e. Significant interior changes: (i.e. ”Getty Dash”, electronic gauge package, stripped interior.)
f. Stock bumper conversion (i.e. 1970 bumpers on a 1976 car)
g. Cup holders ;-)

[Elliot Cannon]

Rules should be left up to the organizers of the event. They should be a little different each time. Do we really need to get that structured.
Cheers, Elliot

[SGB]

And now we have to organize judging around the country for the "First Virtual 914 World Concours D'World"

I'm only half joking...
it could be done.

[dflesburg]

Why seek gratifcation from the approval of others? The journey is more important than the accomplishment...

Thats why I work on my own car.

Whats the joy in having someone tell you the car you paid others to build for you is cool?

No joy there.

[SGB]

Why seek gratifcation from the approval of others? The journey is more important than the accomplishment...

Thats why I work on my own car.

Whats the joy in having someone tell you the car you paid others to build for you is cool?

No joy there.

I think most of us work on our own cars, too. In fact, thats why a fellow 914 owner appreciates and understands the efforts we all make to keep these old go-karts going even more than, say, a 911 owner. hehehehe