What am I Doing?, I have no idea much less a clue Options

[Johny Blackstain]

Please visit the members VIN page & read about Knikki. Once you've read what she is tell me am I preservation or restoration? I have no fuching idea & it's starting to bother me. I don't know what to do, don't know if what I'm doing is right or wrong. I am a major virgin rookie to this concours stuff.

[Pat Garvey]

Please visit the members VIN page & read about Knikki. Once you've read what she is tell me am I preservation or restoration? I have no fuching idea & it's starting to bother me. I don't know what to do, don't know if what I'm doing is right or wrong. I am a major virgin rookie to this concours stuff.

Al,

I'm convinced you are Preservation. Let's check some things out, and the TOTAL is important:

Has the 914 been repainted, particularly with a color change?

Has the interior been redone?

From what I know of your 914, it is a Preservation candidate, and you should do well. But....get more info from PCA.org. If you can answer "yes" to the two above questions, you may need to move to restoration. If only one yes, you should be OK.

But....I'll defer to Jafsmith on these, since he has the most recent experience.

James?
Pat

[Johny Blackstain]

Pat- she has been repainted, but to original specs. My interior is truely untouched as in my gauges are still bright orange & have not sun-faded. Almost everything that was not stock has been replaced w/ OEM. There are 3 little melt marks where my Fathers pipe exploded years ago in the centre console & I will not repair them- they are there to remind me the six is mine & the four is still his. But James himself said I belong in restoration? I'm filthy from scraping off old undercoating & respraying new stuff on. I just want to have a target to shoot for. I also downloaded every concours .pdf that I could from PCA.

[Jasfsmith]

From what I know of your 914, it is a Preservation candidate, and you should do well. But....get more info from PCA.org. If you can answer "yes" to the two above questions, you may need to move to restoration. If only one yes, you should be OK.

But....I'll defer to Jafsmith on these, since he has the most recent experience.

James?
Pat

From my LIMITED experience, you'd do well in Preservation, though you will take a hit on the comprehensive repaint (must be the same color).

ANYTHING that is not OEM spec for that year/model (i.e. your directional lense, unless yoiu can document it) may also earn you a "dermit" depending on how knowledgeable the judges are.

Watching the Restortion class judging, they appear to score equally on quality of the restoration (those items restored) and condition (cleanilness) of the rest of the car. Originality seems to be secondary.

[Johny Blackstain]

From what I know of your 914, it is a Preservation candidate, and you should do well. But....get more info from PCA.org. If you can answer "yes" to the two above questions, you may need to move to restoration. If only one yes, you should be OK.

But....I'll defer to Jafsmith on these, since he has the most recent experience.

James?
Pat

From my LIMITED experience, you'd do well in Preservation, though you will take a hit on the comprehensive repaint (must be the same color).

ANYTHING that is not OEM spec for that year/model (i.e. your directional lense, unless yoiu can document it) may also earn you a "dermit" depending on how knowledgeable the judges are.

Watching the Restortion class judging, they appear to score equally on quality of the restoration (those items restored) and condition (cleanilness) of the rest of the car. Originality seems to be secondary.

James- sorry, that pic is misleading. I no longer have euro lenses on her, all US spec. The only thing Euro on her are her pistons, which are OEM Euro Mahles. I just always liked that photo. There is also the tire question, which I addressed in the headlights thread & no-one seems to want to confront. The exterior repaint was done to LE specs, using Sikkens. No door jams or trunks were re-shot, they're all original. The interior is virgin & extremely unmolested- I just have to take the new Blaupunkt out & put the old Blaupunkt back in.

[Jasfsmith]

[Jeff- sorry, that pic is misleading. I no longer have euro lenses on her, all US spec. The only thing Euro on her are her pistons, which are OEM Euro Mahles. I just always liked that photo. There is also the tire question, which I addressed in the headlights thread & no-one seems to want to confront. The exterior repaint was done to LE specs, using Sikkens. No door jams or trunks were re-shot, they're all original. The interior is virgin & extremely unmolested- I just have to take the new Blaupunkt out & put the old Blaupunkt back in.

I missed the tire thread. FYI, last year at the Portland Parade, I received a dermit for not having the correct size tire (one of those offered in the Owne's manual) I corrected it this year. Other than looking a bit funny (going from a 195/60/15 to 165H15) the road improved.

As to the headlights, so long as it has a DOT on the lense (usually with the manufacture info), yiou should be golden. BTW, I can't recall seeing any LE's without the vinyl sail. Can I assume they came that way in '74?

When you replace the Blaupunkt nback to original are you going to put the original speaks back in as well? <grin>

[Johny Blackstain]

[Jeff- sorry, that pic is misleading. I no longer have euro lenses on her, all US spec. The only thing Euro on her are her pistons, which are OEM Euro Mahles. I just always liked that photo. There is also the tire question, which I addressed in the headlights thread & no-one seems to want to confront. The exterior repaint was done to LE specs, using Sikkens. No door jams or trunks were re-shot, they're all original. The interior is virgin & extremely unmolested- I just have to take the new Blaupunkt out & put the old Blaupunkt back in.

I missed the tire thread. FYI, last year at the Portland Parade, I received a dermit for not having the correct size tire (one of those offered in the Owne's manual) I corrected it this year. Other than looking a bit funny (going from a 195/60/15 to 165H15) the road improved.

As to the headlights, so long as it has a DOT on the lense (usually with the manufacture info), yiou should be golden. BTW, I can't recall seeing any LE's without the vinyl sail. Can I assume they came that way in '74?

When you replace the Blaupunkt nback to original are you going to put the original speaks back in as well? <grin>

As far as I & Jeff Bowlsby know only one LE, a creamsicle from Colorodo, has sail panel vinyl. None of the others have it. I can't stand the idea of giving up my H4's but such is life. Looks like I'm going to take a hit for my tires for I cannot afford to spend any more money on wheels & tires. Having 2 Teeners is very taxing on my wallett. The price of being spoiled (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) If you would like to conduct a historical/archeological dig at the Rockville dump we might be able to find my original speakers, or what's left of those things (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) . Thanks for the clarification James & I guess I'll be seeing you in Charolette in the "fine preserves" division. (every time I hear Preservation all I can think of is strawberry jam (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) )

[Pat Garvey]

From what I know of your 914, it is a Preservation candidate, and you should do well. But....get more info from PCA.org. If you can answer "yes" to the two above questions, you may need to move to restoration. If only one yes, you should be OK.

But....I'll defer to Jafsmith on these, since he has the most recent experience.

James?
Pat

From my LIMITED experience, you'd do well in Preservation, though you will take a hit on the comprehensive repaint (must be the same color).

ANYTHING that is not OEM spec for that year/model (i.e. your directional lense, unless yoiu can document it) may also earn you a "dermit" depending on how knowledgeable the judges are.

Watching the Restortion class judging, they appear to score equally on quality of the restoration (those items restored) and condition (cleanilness) of the rest of the car. Originality seems to be secondary.

I'm a little confused here.

The PCR's indicate that, for Preservation, "most, if not all, of its original factory parts, such as paint, upholstery and carpet" should be original. What constitues "most"? Is a repaint to original not preservation? Patricularly, if nothing else on the car is unoriginal. I'd be hard pressed to call that a resoration. And, what constitutes "most"? Paint is - what - 5% of the car?

We need a clarification from a PCA/PCR person - know one, anyone? If not, I'll find one.
Pat

[Jasfsmith]

From what I know of your 914, it is a Preservation candidate, and you should do well. But....get more info from PCA.org. If you can answer "yes" to the two above questions, you may need to move to restoration. If only one yes, you should be OK.

But....I'll defer to Jafsmith on these, since he has the most recent experience.

James?
Pat

From my LIMITED experience, you'd do well in Preservation, though you will take a hit on the comprehensive repaint (must be the same color).

ANYTHING that is not OEM spec for that year/model (i.e. your directional lense, unless yoiu can document it) may also earn you a "dermit" depending on how knowledgeable the judges are.

Watching the Restortion class judging, they appear to score equally on quality of the restoration (those items restored) and condition (cleanilness) of the rest of the car. Originality seems to be secondary.

I'm a little confused here.

The PCR's indicate that, for Preservation, "most, if not all, of its original factory parts, such as paint, upholstery and carpet" should be original. What constitues "most"? Is a repaint to original not preservation? Patricularly, if nothing else on the car is unoriginal. I'd be hard pressed to call that a resoration. And, what constitutes "most"? Paint is - what - 5% of the car?

We need a clarification from a PCA/PCR person - know one, anyone? If not, I'll find one.
Pat

Good luck. For every person I've apprached on that very question, I have gotten a different answer. In Preservation it has been my observation that, a repaint, complete or partial, will earn a dermit, especially when an entrant arrives with original paint (be it perfect or with some wear).

When you think about it, is not a repaint a process of restoring the car to original condition? Thus the "Restoration" class designation?

[Johny Blackstain]

When you think about it, is not a repaint a process of restoring the car to original condition? Thus the "Restoration" class designation?

Could it not also be considered preserving a car? No paint = rust = no more 914. Repainting would not only restore a car, it would help preserve it. Seems to me that paint would apply to both categories- restoration & preservation. Perhaps it's time to hit some PCA people w/ a big copy of "The Oxford English Dictionary"? Or perhaps it's time to get rid of the 2 designations, combine them & call it the Strawbery Jam Division (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)?


(sorry, could not help myself)

[Jasfsmith]

Could it not also be considered preserving a car? No paint = rust = no more 914. Repainting would not only restore a car, it would help preserve it. Seems to me that paint would apply to both categories- restoration & preservation. Perhaps it's time to hit some PCA people w/ a big copy of "The Oxford English Dictionary"? Or perhaps it's time to get rid of the 2 designations, combine them & call it the Strawbery Jam Division (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)?


(sorry, could not help myself)

ACK! Then the competition will be between those that spend the most money restoring their 914's .....

I know just what your saying. However, I figure having more classes means more hardward awarded to more entrants.

With any luck Pat will use his connections to get to the bottom of this.

[Johny Blackstain]

hardward

Did you mean hardware?

[Jasfsmith]

hardward

Did you mean hardware?

Aye... Guess I need a new spell checker.

[Pat Garvey]

Well, I've spoken (via e-mail) with 2 of the PCR (Parade Competition Rules) people so far re: Preservation class. My question concerned my '72, which was repainted in '79 (no color change).

From the first, and no names will be quoted, I got this:
since " the automobile has had a full re-paint you would receive faults or demerits. The judging in the Preservation Group is on preservation of the automobile not rebuilding/painting it.

For those automobiles that have a complete re-paint, you should enter in the Restoration Group. But as you have not fully restored the other areas of the automobile, you would be sacrificing something in those areas.

You are sort of caught between two classes."

From the second, I recieved this:

"My answer to your question would be: No. A Porsche that has had more than a third of the body re-painted should be considered a restoration and should be put in the Restoration Class. I realize that the PCR’s are vague in this area and we will try to be more specific in the future.

So, one says OK to Preservation (with demerits for paint,, which I can live with).

The other one comes out of the blue with this "third of the body" idea! Has anyone seen any text to that effect in the current PCR's, because I sure haven't. I started thinking about this "third" concept. I repainted the exterior of the doors, fenders & lids. I did not repaint the engine lid (there was a reason for this), door jambs, interior floors, engine areas, belly pan, or interiors of the trunks & lids. I'm inclined to think that I haven't repainted more than a third of the painted surfaces of the car.

Jafsmith appears to be correct. No straight answers, or conflicting answers.

I'm not finished with this yet.

Pat

[Johny Blackstain]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) . Limbo & some decisions to make.


post #910 for me!

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Pat,
I'd interpret what you were told as this, you can elect to be in the "preservation" class, but if someone else in that class has original, or mostly original paint, you would lose points when compared to his "original" finish. If, on the other hand, you placed your car in the "restoration" class and my newly refinished car was also in that class, you could conceivably lose points to my car because I'll have a considerably newer, fresher paint finish. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Now of course other areas of the car are judged, but somehow the rules seem to be weighted against your particular circumstances. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
This certainly appears to be a grey area. These rules will bear watching for clarification as there may be a number of us interested in appearing at the PCA Parade in Charlotte next year. I'm sure you will keep us informed as you hear details.

Paul

[Jasfsmith]

Pat,
I'd interpret what you were told as this, you can elect to be in the "preservation" class, but if someone else in that class has original, or mostly original paint, you would lose points when compared to his "original" finish. If, on the other hand, you placed your car in the "restoration" class and my newly refinished car was also in that class, you could conceivably lose points to my car because I'll have a considerably newer, fresher paint finish. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Now of course other areas of the car are judged, but somehow the rules seem to be weighted against your particular circumstances. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
This certainly appears to be a grey area. These rules will bear watching for clarification as there may be a number of us interested in appearing at the PCA Parade in Charlotte next year. I'm sure you will keep us informed as you hear details.

Paul

I agree with you in your assessment ot the Preservation Class, however you would not likely lose points on a "fresher" paint finish. In Restoration Class, it is how well you restored the item to original condition (thus "restoration"). In both classes, wear and tear that occurs during travel to the event is not affect negatively in judging.



One advantage in the Restoration Class is there you recevie mileage (odometer) bonus points.

[Jasfsmith]

Please visit the members VIN page & read about Knikki. Once you've read what she is tell me am I preservation or restoration? I have no fuching idea & it's starting to bother me. I don't know what to do, don't know if what I'm doing is right or wrong. I am a major virgin rookie to this concours stuff.

Just for my info. You never did respond to whether the painted sails are oriiginal. I can't seem to find any reference to this being the case.

BTW, looks good painted. Matches my "plain Jayne" '70 914-4.

[Johny Blackstain]

Just for my info. You never did respond to whether the painted sails are oriiginal. I can't seem to find any reference to this being the case.

BTW, looks good painted. Matches my "plain Jayne" '70 914-4.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) space... sails are original & only repainted.

I adjusted my VIN description avoiding all the OEM things I replaced & only wrote what is not stock or what I consider a noteable replacement- (battery tray, rocker) OEM replacement of rubber, shocks, brakes etc... should be expected on a well maintained vehicle.


note- post # 912, anyone know what a 913 is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ?

[Pat Garvey]

Pat,
I'd interpret what you were told as this, you can elect to be in the "preservation" class, but if someone else in that class has original, or mostly original paint, you would lose points when compared to his "original" finish. If, on the other hand, you placed your car in the "restoration" class and my newly refinished car was also in that class, you could conceivably lose points to my car because I'll have a considerably newer, fresher paint finish. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Now of course other areas of the car are judged, but somehow the rules seem to be weighted against your particular circumstances. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
This certainly appears to be a grey area. These rules will bear watching for clarification as there may be a number of us interested in appearing at the PCA Parade in Charlotte next year. I'm sure you will keep us informed as you hear details.

Paul

I agree with you in your assessment ot the Preservation Class, however you would not likely lose points on a "fresher" paint finish. In Restoration Class, it is how well you restored the item to original condition (thus "restoration"). In both classes, wear and tear that occurs during travel to the event is not affect negatively in judging.



One advantage in the Restoration Class is there you recevie mileage (odometer) bonus points.

To date, I've recieved no further communication from the PCR gods.

Though I don'r consider my 914 restored because of an exterior paint job, others may (the paint job WAS performed in 1979!). I've always "preserved" the engine, trans, chassis, suspension, interior, glass, etc to original condition (as recieved from the dealer). So, I'm willing to participate in Preservation or Resoration, and I WANT the chassis judged.

Bonus points for the mileage driven is a consideration, though mine has less than 68k on it. But, I can prove it! How many in Resto will be able to prove mileage, unless the are the first or second generation owner.

Not sure what I'll do at this point. Not afraid of either class, just trying to optimize for my 914.
Pat