dmenche BULL, split from the 914 value thread Options

[SGB]

The unfortunate reality is that our little 30 year old four cylinders create perhaps 10 to 100 times more CO, NO,and a lot of hydrocarbons burned up in the catalytic chamber than in cars only 20 years old.

There is no legitimate way to rationalize it. That sucks.

So I try to make up for it by being contientous about all the other things- paints and pesticides, electricity reduction and things like that.

Do what you can but don't be a martyr.

[JPB]

The guy is a nut job, though I find it entertaining to a point.... I mean seeing many different warped world views, well.. keeps me more in touch with reality..

what a friggin nut

I once delved into the state of reality and found it was way over rated. I decided to dwell in the unreal dimension. Remember, ignorance is bliss! If reality hits me again, I'm gonna need way more beers!:beer1:

[ConeDodger]

dmenche914 kicked for two days... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

We can't allow racial slurs. That behavior is unacceptable.

Thank you. I really was offended.

[brp914]

There was an article in the LA Times a couple weeks ago that said the population of CA will increase from 30 Mil to 50 Mil by 2050. So conservation is basically sacrificing your own quality of life for the anonymous millions who will come here and consume all you have conserved, and then some.

[Dr Evil]

I am doing my part! Look at the list of vehicles that I have and can only drive one at a time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Plus, the MBZ gets 35mpg at least, the bikes get at least 45mpg and caus less abuse on the roads while leaving less artifact as well when service life is exceeded (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Mark, thanks!

[lotus_65]

thanks mark.

[JohnM]

The unfortunate reality is that our little 30 year old four cylinders create perhaps 10 to 100 times more CO, NO,and a lot of hydrocarbons burned up in the catalytic chamber than in cars only 20 years old.

There is no legitimate way to rationalize it. That sucks...

Ya, you're probably right on the pollution data. But let me give a shot at some rationale: You got to admit, dollar for pound, there probably ain't no funner way to pollute than driving a 914 through some twisties. Like I tell my 10-year-old son, "you smell that exhaust, son? That's the smell of freedom, pre-smog planet killing freedom, but what the hell don't fear the reaper. Let's roll!" John

[jwalters]

The guy is a nut job, though I find it entertaining to a point.... I mean seeing many different warped world views, well.. keeps me more in touch with reality..

what a friggin nut

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I am not alone (quick edit: in thinking this myself) after all .............................. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

Now where did I put that thread of me and him going toe to toe.......I think it is around here somewhere.....

[jwalters]

dmenche914 kicked for two days... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

We can't allow racial slurs. That behavior is unacceptable.

Thank you Mr. McMark - The world just got a little more 'green' with this...

[neo914-6]

Was this rant about Arnold? Ya know he'll become president one day, just watch the Simpson's movie... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[EdwardBlume]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[brer]

actually its easy to rationalize the car hobby.

the longer you keep a car on the road the smaller the footprint of its embodied energy gets. A car that is reasonably economical that has been around for 30 or more years will create less pollution if driven another 30 years than will be made during the creation of ANY new replacement vehicle.

Embodied energy. How much energy and emissions were created in the construction of that prius? Moving materials around the globe and such. Or a hummer? How much energy and pollution was created?

My car has a very high tailpipe emmision, but a very low lifecycle cost.

see ya later haterz.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[McMark]

Very smart Brer! Well said! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap.gif)

[SGB]

A car that is reasonably economical that has been around for 30 or more years will create less pollution if driven another 30 years than will be made during the creation of ANY new replacement vehicle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That sounds good, and I would like to believe it, but it is not substantiated by anything. Toyota is gonna make cars anyway. At least the methods used today are much less impacting than when our teeners were built.

I'm just trying to keep folks from deluding themselves. I love living in the petroleum era.

The real impact has still got to be tail pipe emmissions. The good thing is that there aren't many 914s on the road.

Someone needs to do something about all those old 911s though! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[So.Cal.914]

Most 914's are on jackstands anyway, how much do you think they pollute sitting there?

And how many are driven all the time, alot have DD's and drive those. And alot of those guys keep there foot out of it as not to break them.

People with new rides don't care about breaking, warrenty covers breakage so alot drive the piss out of them. Are they creating less pollution? Maybe less of one or two but from what I see, more of others.

IMHO.

[DNHunt]

This may not be a big point but, remember we use no ethylene glycol. how many water pumpers do you see spitting overflow. That ends up in surface water.

My try at rationalization

By the way I found that offensive too

Dave

[brer]

Its true kids.
I base my post on green building ideas.

http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=222&


You dont need numbers to recognize the tremendous amount of energy spent on one vehicle, the support systems used to create and deliver it.


Driving a classic car also motivates me to cut out frivolous car trips.
Keeping the miles down, and within my insurance mileage limits. Since I made my 60 beetle my daily drive I have begun to walk to work everyday because I dont like leaving it sitting out in the sun baking. My Girl got jealous of me not having to drive so she is now bicycling to her friends house 25 minutes away to carpool to their office.


I call it,

Trickle down environmentalism.

[G e o r g e]

Trickle down environmentalism.

Ronald "Brer" Reagan for president (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

Just Say No .....to new cars

[roadster fan]

hey Brer,

I just saw this discussion and should probably just let it die, but.......

Thank you for articulating a position most will not discuss for fear of being anti-environment. Everything manufactured has an enviromental cost associated with it and we must consider the total cost of products.

I recently saw a program on the manufacture of flashlights by Surefire. From mining the aluminum for the lights case and silica for the glass bulb, to refining the metal, manufacturing the bulb, to creating batteries that will eventually need to be disposed of, transportation of all raw materials and the shipping of the finished product.....the list goes on! An incredible amount of energy is consumed and substantial pollution created just by producing a seemingly harmless flashlight.

Anyway, thanks for mentioning the unseen environmental costs of replacing your old car with a new one.

[r_towle]

I for one am more than willing to drive an old car that gets 30-34mpg over a new car that gets less mpg.

The analysis that always brings it home is this.
A typical lifespan of a solar photo voltaic panel is less than the time it takes for that panel to create more "free energy" then it consumed to create that panel in the first place.

Now, this has been fact since PV panels have been created, its still a fact for the most part, though finally the new process has changed this, and in the next 5 years we will see PV panels the are positive producers of electricity.

Car,
I cant possibly imaging, given the FACT regarding a PV panel, that a car which is new, like a prius, does nothing but consume energy in the manufacturing life cycle.
I cant imagine that I might save anything by buying it.
I have to drive to work to make the money to pay for it, right.
There cant possibly be any good simple arguement to buy a new car from any environmental standpoint.
Please, before you react, read the part about the manufacturing of a PV panel that actually contributes "free" and clean power to our world.

There is no way a new car could possibly have any positive impact at all on our planet.
If all the new car manufacturing stopped, think of the reduction of smog then, plants closed, steel manufacturing slows, trucking, logistics,...
This list goes on and on, for in fact it is the LARGEST manufacturing business in the world.
There is no business, no product, no total lifecycle , that consumes MORE that the design/build/operation of a car.

The longer any product lives, the smaller the overall polution footprint is on the world, just a fact, no opinion, just pure numbers.

Again, please hold the emotion, look at the PV panel example, and I am glad to point you to many many studies regarding that example.
Cars, the longer they live, the longer you use them, the smaller the overall pollution signature is per year/per mile.

Rich