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> AX transmission
mskala
post Mar 18 2003, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE(porsche735 @ Mar 18 2003, 08:19 PM)
Stock trans is:
1st 3.09=A
2nd 1.89=F 39% delta from 1st
3rd 1.26=N 33% delta from 2nd
4th 0.93=V 27% delta from 3rd
5th 0.71=ZD 23% delta from 4th

Except if you have a -6 trans, then

Stock 6:
1st 3.09=A
2nd 1.78=GA 42% delta from 1st
3rd 1.22=O 31% delta from 2nd
4th 0.93=V 24% delta from 3rd
5th 0.76=ZA 18% delta from 4th

same final drive 4.43
If I calculated correctly
Mark S.
'70 914-6
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porsche735
post Mar 19 2003, 02:06 PM
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Brad,
The Time Trial and HSDS went great. The weather actually cooperated with us. Friday was 3 sessions dry and 1 session wet (funny watching the newbies spin like crazy after getting fast after 3 sessions).
Saturday was basically dry. Sunday was really wet in the morning. I had fun, and I am not kidding, passing EVERY car in the red group. And that's on bald Kumhos (we corded them prior to the time trial). It's nice to have an equalizer for our low horsepower cars. The weatehr dried up after the first session and it was great. We started to get sprinkles around time trial time, so they caled them off and went to practice instead. We went once more until we really had no tread left and exposed about a 6 inch patch of cord. You know, running on corded tires is a lot like running in the rain. We were still putting down 2:19's on corded tires.
So, no times, but a great weekend....

chris
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TimT
post Mar 19 2003, 03:46 PM
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FWIW I have AFKQV in my 911's box. My 914 has shorter gears dunno which though, someday Ill open the box up and find out.
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campbellcj
post Mar 19 2003, 04:07 PM
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There are too many Chris's on this board...

I guess I will just have to start going by my middle name:

JOHN

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r_towle
post Mar 19 2003, 05:56 PM
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I like the sounds of this KA route.

So, what do I buy for this.....and where!!!
I am not clear on swappping fifth??

Please explain...

Thanx
Rich
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Bleyseng
post Mar 19 2003, 07:17 PM
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We know who you are Campbell whether it's Chris or John or somethingelse.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)
Geoff
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Mike T
post Mar 19 2003, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Mar 19 2003, 03:56 PM)
I like the sounds of this KA route.

So, what do I buy for this.....and where!!!
I am not clear on swappping fifth??

Please explain...

Thanx
Rich

I used the 5th gear right out of the same trans. A friend did it for me. Another local 914er. We used 5th to replace 3rd and stuck the old 3rd, reversed, in the 5th gear spot. 3rd was now 1.409:1 and 5th was 0.793:1. Since I never see 5th gear in this car it was just expedient to do it that way. Works good, is cheap to do. I like it.

Mike T.
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porsche735
post Mar 19 2003, 09:24 PM
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Rich,
As I said, no gears to buy. All you do is move 3rd to 5th and swap the pinion and drive gears. Flip 4th pinion and drive gears and use the old 5th in the 3rd location swapping the pinion and drive gears. It is really very easy to do. I have a brand new transmission that I have done this to if there are any takers...

Chris
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 19 2003, 09:35 PM
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I normally use the terms (Drive and Driven gears) this normally makes it a little clearer for people to understand. I say Drive gear and they can figure out that is the input shaft gear. Driven being the pinion shaft gear.

B
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 19 2003, 10:52 PM
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Richard,

We flip 5th gear to make a new shorter 3rd gear. Think of fifth as a overdrive gear. Now flip it (make the drive gear of the two a driven gear) This now makes a underdrive for 3rd. You physically take the driven gear and put it on the input shaft making it the new 3rd drive gear.


Got it ??

B
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Mike T
post Mar 20 2003, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE(porsche735 @ Mar 19 2003, 07:24 PM)
Flip 4th pinion and drive gears

When mine was done I wanted to flip the 4th gear set too, make a 1.08:1 out of it. Leave it right there in 4th position, just flipped. The guy doing the work said it wouldn't work. Was he mistaken?

Mike T.
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JWest
post Mar 20 2003, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE
Leave it right there in 4th position, just flipped


No, you can't just flip a gear set in its same position (4th to 4th). One gear is splined and the other has a bearing and the syncro parts, these end up in the wrong place if you were to try to just flip drive for driven.

It does work for the 3rd to 5th swap that is being discussed, though.
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drew365
post Mar 20 2003, 09:46 AM
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This sounds like a good mod for a short road course also. I know on the Streets of Willow there are two corners I'd like to take in 3rd but my gear is too tall. But if I also run longer tracks like Buttonwillow I'd need to have a second trans setup. This hobby keeps getting more serious. So what would be a good mod to a stock -6 trans for the longer road courses.
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Joseph Mills
post Mar 20 2003, 10:18 AM
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I've been given two spare trannys from an ex-racer. He can't remember their condition but thinks one may be limited slip. Presently, I have NO low gear syncro and have future plans to rebuild one of these trannys so I'm interested in this gear KA flip for auto-x. But how driveable is this setup for highway speeds?

I'm a little confused (again). When 3rd & 5th is swapped, what is the end result for the new 5th gear combo? Is it taller or lower?

Anyone have any idea what the estimated rpm difference (from stock to KA flip), for a given speed (say 70mph), in 5th gear would be?

Joseph
75 2.0L AX bound
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 20 2003, 11:08 AM
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Joseph.

Flip a 5th from the tranny you want to use. Put it in place of your current third. Now use the stock 5th from the spare tranny and it put it back in the stock location. Now you have a close ratio box 2-3-4 with a stock 5th. There will be a stock split from 4th to 5th. but the car will pull like a freight train.

B
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 20 2003, 11:10 AM
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Oh,

we chat about this like it is nothing. NONE of this is easy. Plenty of physical work to get 5th off the pinion shaft. We are leaving out about 150 steps in the process.


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JWest
post Mar 20 2003, 11:19 AM
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Gear chart for about a stock diameter tire (calculated a 205/55/16)
Red is 914/4
Blue are flipped 3rd and 5th
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Zeke
post Mar 20 2003, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE(porsche735 @ Mar 18 2003, 05:19 PM)
The trick is thus:

Stock trans is:
1st   3.09=A
2nd  1.89=F    39% delta from 1st
3rd  1.26=N    33% delta from 2nd
4th  0.93=V    27% delta from 3rd
5th  0.71=ZD  23% delta from 4th

Do this:
1st  3.09=A
2nd 1.89=F    39% delta from 1st
3rd  1.41=KA  25% delta from 2nd (swapped 5th)
4th  1.08=R    23% delta from 3rd (swap 4th around)
5th  0.79=Z    26% delta from 4th (swapped 3rd)

This gives you a beautifully spaced gearbox (once you get out of 1st)

Do it, it's great....

Chris Kolstad
1973 914 2.0L  (bummer stock ratios in my class, BP)

I think i understand what is being shown. Could you post the formula to calculate some other combinations?

Also, what did you mean here:

QUOTE
Except if you have a -6 trans, then
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Joseph Mills
post Mar 20 2003, 12:42 PM
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Wow! Thanks James, for that excellent chart. So on a typical flip, at 70mph looks like you'll run about 400rpm higher in your new fifth. Not a good idea for my car. And it looks like there would be about a 10 to 15mph loss in top end speed (I'd have to leave for work earlier).

Brad, borrowing an additional fifth from the extra tranny is a perfect solution for me. I can have the best of both! Thanks.

"Oh, we chat about this like it is nothing. NONE of this is easy. Plenty of physical work to get 5th off the pinion shaft. We are leaving out about 150 steps in the process."

Uh oh! Looks like I need another chart. One that calculates the inverse ratio of rationalizations vs. geometrical expenditures and the estimated time & distance of budget repair expressed by the thiness of my wallet in mm's please.

Joseph
75 2.0L AX bound
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JWest
post Mar 20 2003, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE
Looks like I need another chart. One that calculates the inverse ratio of rationalizations vs. geometrical expenditures and the estimated time & distance of budget repair expressed by the thiness of my wallet in mm's please.


I'm not touching that one, mostly because I don't want to know the results as it applies to me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

James
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