Wheels and Tires, Let's get this discussion centralized Options

[davep]

Tom, here is a link:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...rtnum=865HR5TCT
Yes, up to 4% error due to smaller size, but I can accept that. The tire was rated very high by Canadian Tire; above 99%, and we have Continentals on our VW's as well. These are an experiment for me, and if nothing else can be rim protectors.

[Tom_T]

Tom, here is a link:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...rtnum=865HR5TCT
Yes, up to 4% error due to smaller size, but I can accept that. The tire was rated very high by Canadian Tire; above 99%, and we have Continentals on our VW's as well. These are an experiment for me, and if nothing else can be rim protectors.

Thanx Dave,

Now I recall seeing them there, but I initially chose not to list them since they weren't the 185/70R15 alternative option size with minimal speedo/odo errror.

4% isn't as bad as the 8% error on the 195/65R15s that Porsche used to recco for our 914's. Several members on here got burned with excess ghost mileage on their low mile collector 914s in the past by running 195/65R15s.

PS - if Conti made those in 195/65HR14, then I'd try them on my `85 BMW 325e E30 Coupe!

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[CCE]

I have steelies on mine.
Just need the hubcaps… soon.

15/5,5
On Pirelli P4 165/65

I do need some spacers, any suggestions?

[L-Jet914]

I have steelies on mine.
Just need the hubcaps… soon.

15/5,5
On Pirelli P4 165/65

I do need some spacers, any suggestions?

If you have factory 914 steel wheels, you shouldn't need spacers. 914 steel wheels have different a different offset than the Beetle wheels. OE part number 914 361 012 02. 5.5x15J H2 ET40.

[nathanxnathan]

Are the 4.5" steel wheels on an early standard equipment car any different than beetle wheels, the offset?

[nathanxnathan]

It took me awhile to figure out about the 4.5 inch early steel wheel offsets and I think I have it here. Looks like they are the same as 69 – 74 Ghia wheels, a 46mm offset. I wish they had type 3 wheels listed as I think they are actually from the type 3, not sure which years. Part number 311 601 025 C.

[wonkipop]

nice chart @nathanxnathan .



i think the 4.5s are type 3 wheels as you surmise. they are listed as 311 601 025J in the parts catalogue for the 914. not sure what variation or version J means. just minor update is all?
when you go on VW classic germany and look up the parts catalogues for type 3s the wheels are listed as 311 601 025C. same wheel on a 411/412 as well. i think it stops at C on those catalogues just because they are older catalogues they have on line which only go to the c version listing. but anyway 914 catalogue says its J version.

after that the wheels are all 5.5s with 40mm offset. same for star steelie version.

[nathanxnathan]

nice chart @nathanxnathan .



i think the 4.5s are type 3 wheels as you surmise. they are listed as 311 601 025J in the parts catalogue for the 914. not sure what variation or version J means. just minor update is all?
when you go on VW classic germany and look up the parts catalogues for type 3s the wheels are listed as 311 601 025C. same wheel on a 411/412 as well. i think it stops at C on those catalogues just because they are older catalogues they have on line which only go to the c version listing. but anyway 914 catalogue says its J version.

after that the wheels are all 5.5s with 40mm offset. same for star steelie version.

On page 5 of this thread (15 years ago lol) DaveP said

We have the 4.5" & 5.5" early steel painted, 5.5" early steel chrome, late styled 5.5" painted, Pedrini, Fuchs and Mahle alloys, Pedrini and Fuchs for the non hub-centric as varieties, and two LE varieties of the Mahles for the 914/4. I'm not sure how many of the early steel wheels were tube type rims; the 'J' designation is for tubeless varieties. I believe everything from at least 1973 MY on had tubeless rims as standard.

I think later it was stated that there are some safety concerns about running radials on anything pre 73, the J wheels for tubed tires, but I'm not super worried. I'm looking for some 4.5 J x 15's for my project. My ocd side is willing to wait for a 8/69 – 7/70 date matched set but we'll see what comes up and keep looking for now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit — I thought you were talking about the J in 4.5 J x 15 — but you meant in the part number. I'm assuming you have a vintage copy of the 914 parts catalog?

[wonkipop]

nice chart @nathanxnathan .



i think the 4.5s are type 3 wheels as you surmise. they are listed as 311 601 025J in the parts catalogue for the 914. not sure what variation or version J means. just minor update is all?
when you go on VW classic germany and look up the parts catalogues for type 3s the wheels are listed as 311 601 025C. same wheel on a 411/412 as well. i think it stops at C on those catalogues just because they are older catalogues they have on line which only go to the c version listing. but anyway 914 catalogue says its J version.

after that the wheels are all 5.5s with 40mm offset. same for star steelie version.

On page 5 of this thread (15 years ago lol) DaveP said

We have the 4.5" & 5.5" early steel painted, 5.5" early steel chrome, late styled 5.5" painted, Pedrini, Fuchs and Mahle alloys, Pedrini and Fuchs for the non hub-centric as varieties, and two LE varieties of the Mahles for the 914/4. I'm not sure how many of the early steel wheels were tube type rims; the 'J' designation is for tubeless varieties. I believe everything from at least 1973 MY on had tubeless rims as standard.

I think later it was stated that there are some safety concerns about running radials on anything pre 73, the J wheels for tubed tires, but I'm not super worried. I'm looking for some 4.5 J x 15's for my project. My ocd side is willing to wait for a 8/69 – 7/70 date matched set but we'll see what comes up and keep looking for now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit — I thought you were talking about the J in 4.5 J x 15 — but you meant in the part number. I'm assuming you have a vintage copy of the 914 parts catalog?

no - i don't have vintage parts manuals.
so you can't quite figure out if they are talking about what ultimately supercedes and what was original at the time.

i think i have had the same exasperating experiences as you trying to figure it out.

i think the parts manuals on the VW classic site in germany that you can access are actually period pieces from the time. and the 914 ones you can download are updated into the early 21st century. they don't have 914 parts catalogues on the VW classic site. its a nightmare picking through it. you even wonder if VW just stick up some stuff on their site for mere convenience. and the catalogues are the german ones - so don't cover USA market. i'd love to be able to pull down an aus market parts catalogue, i know they existed. but try and find one.

i've got no idea what a J update on a type 3 wheel would be.
but i do think that you are right. the narrow wheel 914s were running type 3 steel wheels and so did 411 and 412s. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

what i do know is the offset on the star steelies on the 914 is different from the star steelies on the beetles in 1974. in fact the beetles offset it out to give a wider wheel appearance than the 914s. the germans were all over the shop as we say in australia.\

going back to the wheel spare part no.
the type 3 wheel is always called a 311 601 025
and in the beginning that is actually that primitive 5 bolt wheel.
by the time you get to 311 601 025C - thats when it turns into the 4 bolt wheel for the disc brake front end with vent slots around it. classic vw late 60s wheel.
and then they just keep adding D E F G H I and "J".
because somehow they keep doing little mods to it.
whatever they are.
so the 914 gets the 311 601 025 J.
and i have no idea why that is different to 311 601 025 C.
but main thing is it is still a type 3 wheel and they just keep bolting it on.
type3 s, type 4s and 914s.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

so bringing up radials and tubeless tyres.
yes, you are probably right.
but i would not have a clue.
but there must be little things they do.
what they are, i do not know.

[nathanxnathan]

no - i don't have vintage parts manuals.
so you can't quite figure out if they are talking about what ultimately supercedes and what was original at the time.

i think i have had the same exasperating experiences as you trying to figure it out.

i think the parts manuals on the VW classic site in germany that you can access are actually period pieces from the time. and the 914 ones you can download are updated into the early 21st century. they don't have 914 parts catalogues on the VW classic site. its a nightmare picking through it. you even wonder if VW just stick up some stuff on their site for mere convenience. and the catalogues are the german ones - so don't cover USA market. i'd love to be able to pull down an aus market parts catalogue, i know they existed. but try and find one.

i've got no idea what a J update on a type 3 wheel would be.
but i do think that you are right. the narrow wheel 914s were running type 3 steel wheels and so did 411 and 412s. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

what i do know is the offset on the star steelies on the 914 is different from the star steelies on the beetles in 1974. in fact the beetles offset it out to give a wider wheel appearance than the 914s. the germans were all over the shop as we say in australia.\

going back to the wheel spare part no.
the type 3 wheel is always called a 311 601 025
and in the beginning that is actually that primitive 5 bolt wheel.
by the time you get to 311 601 025C - thats when it turns into the 4 bolt wheel for the disc brake front end with vent slots around it. classic vw late 60s wheel.
and then they just keep adding D E F G H I and "J".
because somehow they keep doing little mods to it.
whatever they are.
so the 914 gets the 311 601 025 J.
and i have no idea why that is different to 311 601 025 C.
but main thing is it is still a type 3 wheel and they just keep bolting it on.
type3 s, type 4s and 914s.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

so bringing up radials and tubeless tyres.
yes, you are probably right.
but i would not have a clue.
but there must be little things they do.
what they are, i do not know.

Ah, nice! I didn't realize the German Classic Parts site had "Ersatzteilkataloges"! After looking at the type 3 one, I realize the "TL" and "Variant" at least do refer to Type 3's — I'm still a bit confused about the name of type 3's, like they call a notchback a "1500" (which is an engine size I would think), a squareback is a "variant" and a fastback is a "TL".

Here's the listing of the wheels in the type 3 catalogue


1 and 2 you can see are wide bolt pattern in the pic


So 3, which is "C" part number and the "–" are the ones. The "–" means not pictured and is for M 263 which ocr traced and translated is

M 263 powerful truck mounts for required payloads 361-388 from chassis no. 367 030 001

316 000 001 is august '65. They don't list 367 030 001 specifically, but it's between August and December of 70.

That catalog only goes to the start of the 72 model year and type 3's were produced until 73, so there's some info missing, but it is helpful.

I got pretty good at interpreting the catalogs when I did the "Sliced Bread" bus part finder site.

[nathanxnathan]

That's great and professional information. And a fantastic resource to have. If you could walk me through the entire process, that would be great.

Sorry, without email notifications, it's hard to follow up sometimes — I think originality and history forum doesn't get posted to the home page so you have to check here specifically?

Anyway, I think you are talking about the VW classic site, how to get to the part catalogs? It's the volkswagen-classic-parts.com site, but if you choose Duetsch in the upper right it takes you to here https://www.volkswagen-classic-parts.com/de_de/

Then in the main menu under service, on the far right is "Ersatzteilkataloge"

They only have VW models though, no 914...but...

[nathanxnathan]

Since I posted I hooked up with the parts catalogue with illustrations — I'm kind of a nerd for this stuff.

It's not as good as I'd like — the VW parts catalogues have like bolt sizes and more info generally. Still it has some interesting info. Here is the only 4 lug wheel illustration. It's weird that they only show a Pedrini and it's dated 1/73 which would be up to 73 model year. They have the 2L Fuchs in the description, the second #8, but not the 4 lug Mahles which I thought they did have in 73.

Anyway it turns out there IS a "J" version — so weird they skipped every version from C until J? Seems the C version was available previous to 73 model year when they just had 914/4, and then they got the J version once they started differentiating 914 1.7 and 914 2.0 which was I think 73 my. I was thinking that may be when they started making the wheels hub centric, though I thought that was just the alloy wheels — perhaps the change was for that.

[wonkipop]

@nathanxnathan

don't apologize for being a nerd.
step up from a wonk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

looks like you enjoyed cruising around in the VW classic website catalogues.
they have limitations. all in german so you got work your google translator or speak german! and they are not all up to the very end of the model in some cases and they do not seem to cover particular USA market variations. for instance the USA 412 L-Jet is not there.

you got some good stuff on your files.
interesting variation of parts catalogue you have there.
you got a hard copy?

can help you out with some things re the A B C D E and so on variations i think and maybe how the parts numbers work in chronological sequence.
and its typical VW inside out and back to front thinking.
but it made sense to them probably.

1) i believe that the first three numbers of the parts number sequence are the model the part is first used on. so if its a beetle its a 111. or if a type 3 for instance its 311.

so that is the first thing that can throw you out. some of the missing numbers of the wheel variants are because they have a different first three numbers depending on which model that particular steel wheel was first on.

2) the second bunch of two lots of three numberss describe the part. ie steel wheel.

for the most part the steel wheels in all their variations carry these numbers.
601 025.

i say for the most part, because there are some funny exceptions in there which i cannot explain. these are minor exceptions.

3) the letter at the end denotes the chronological sequence in the evolution or variations of the wheel. no letter = first. A = second.

posted below the pages from catalogue for one of the beetle variants. i think this is from the 1303 catalogue.

whats interesting is the star steelies follow on chronologically from the standard steel wheels with hub cabs. same part number. just a different letter at the end.

when you look at the 914 parts catalogue the star steelie does not get a VW part number - it is given a specific 914 part number. what that means is that particular star steelie went on the 914 first - and is unique to the 914. offsets etc. it is not shared with other VWs. as a result its got a porsche parts # not a VW parts #.

wheels from beetle catalogue




wheels from 914 catalogue




you can see a lot of the variation letter sequence between D and L is there in the beetle parts catalogue. not all. but most. the remaining missing ones are probably in other beetle parts catalogues (there are several) or possible in the bus catalogues?

-------------

re type 3s and 1500s and 1600s.
not sure what type 3 s were badged as in the USA for marketing.
but this is how it goes and how we got them in australia where we had the same range as the german market cars right through the production run, including the panel vans.

1500s were the first version for about three years or so.
two models. the notchback and squareback.
the real early ones had a single carb and were awful.
very quickly there was a 1500 twin carb introduced.
maybe only one year of single carbs. 1963 or 64, something like that.

then the 1600 came in.
twin carb. bigger engine.
the fastback was introduced.
1967 or 68. around then.
full range down here was notchback, fastback, squareback (called a variant here).
all had the same engine. twin carb 1600.
towards the end they got extended noses. around 70 or 71.

some D jet fastbacks were sold in australia.
marketed as the most expensive and luxurious version.
called a TLE. the notchback and variant did not get D-Jet.

i used to know a bit about type 3s but it was half a life-time ago.

trivia. the nickname for the fastback in australia was "the pastie".
or pasty as sometimes spelt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasty

[L-Jet914]

@nathanxnathan

don't apologize for being a nerd.
step up from a wonk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

looks like you enjoyed cruising around in the VW classic website catalogues.
they have limitations. all in german so you got work your google translator or speak german! and they are not all up to the very end of the model in some cases and they do not seem to cover particular USA market variations. for instance the USA 412 L-Jet is not there.

you got some good stuff on your files.
interesting variation of parts catalogue you have there.
you got a hard copy?

can help you out with some things re the A B C D E and so on variations i think and maybe how the parts numbers work in chronological sequence.
and its typical VW inside out and back to front thinking.
but it made sense to them probably.

1) i believe that the first three numbers of the parts number sequence are the model the part is first used on. so if its a beetle its a 111. or if a type 3 for instance its 311.

so that is the first thing that can throw you out. some of the missing numbers of the wheel variants are because they have a different first three numbers depending on which model that particular steel wheel was first on.

2) the second bunch of two lots of three numberss describe the part. ie steel wheel.

for the most part the steel wheels in all their variations carry these numbers.
601 025.

i say for the most part, because there are some funny exceptions in there which i cannot explain. these are minor exceptions.

3) the letter at the end denotes the chronological sequence in the evolution or variations of the wheel. no letter = first. A = second.

posted below the pages from catalogue for one of the beetle variants. i think this is from the 1303 catalogue.

whats interesting is the star steelies follow on chronologically from the standard steel wheels with hub cabs. same part number. just a different letter at the end.

when you look at the 914 parts catalogue the star steelie does not get a VW part number - it is given a specific 914 part number. what that means is that particular star steelie went on the 914 first - and is unique to the 914. offsets etc. it is not shared with other VWs. as a result its got a porsche parts # not a VW parts #.

wheels from beetle catalogue




wheels from 914 catalogue




you can see a lot of the variation letter sequence between D and L is there in the beetle parts catalogue. not all. but most. the remaining missing ones are probably in other beetle parts catalogues (there are several) or possible in the bus catalogues?

-------------

re type 3s and 1500s and 1600s.
not sure what type 3 s were badged as in the USA for marketing.
but this is how it goes and how we got them in australia where we had the same range as the german market cars right through the production run, including the panel vans.

1500s were the first version for about three years or so.
two models. the notchback and squareback.
the real early ones had a single carb and were awful.
very quickly there was a 1500 twin carb introduced.
maybe only one year of single carbs. 1963 or 64, something like that.

then the 1600 came in.
twin carb. bigger engine.
the fastback was introduced.
1967 or 68. around then.
full range down here was notchback, fastback, squareback (called a variant here).
all had the same engine. twin carb 1600.
towards the end they got extended noses. around 70 or 71.

some D jet fastbacks were sold in australia.
marketed as the most expensive and luxurious version.
called a TLE. the notchback and variant did not get D-Jet.

i used to know a bit about type 3s but it was half a life-time ago.

trivia. the nickname for the fastback in australia was "the pastie".
or pasty as sometimes spelt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasty

In the US we had the Fastback (coupe) and Squareback (estate/station wagon) for the Type 3's starting in '66 per wiki.

[skota23]

Here’s the spare from my 74. I don’t think I’ve seen these weights before. Is there name for this wheel. The rest of the wheels have been painted black and have old 205/65 tires. They will be refinished in silver and going with 185 Vredestein classics or cn36’s.

[wonkipop]

Here’s the spare from my 74. I don’t think I’ve seen these weights before. Is there name for this wheel. The rest of the wheels have been painted black and have old 205/65 tires. They will be refinished in silver and going with 185 Vredestein classics or cn36’s.

VW steel wheel from 1974 on.
you have the correct wheels for the car.

commonly referred to as VW sport wheel.
offsets etc particular to 914.
beetles of same era had similar with different offsets.
(see posts above with info on that).

nice choice of tyres for the wheels.
keep those wheels.
they never used to be appreciated but they are so good.
i have a set on my 74 as well and have never been tempted into replacing them with alloys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

slang for the wheels in USA = star steelies.
here in aus the VW folks called them X rims.
highly sought after by aussie vw nerds as were never on any australian VWs.

[CCE]

Got the covers now.



Unfortunately the originals where long gone beyond repair when I got the car. I did keep the center cap for the old ones

[914rrr]

What is the correct color and type of paint (metallic, non-metallic, single stage, etc.) used on 5.5 x 15 sport steel wheels aka "star steelies" on a 74 2.0? Also, are the flat plastic center caps for these NLA? Thanks!

[wonkipop]

What is the correct color and type of paint (metallic, non-metallic, single stage, etc.) used on 5.5 x 15 sport steel wheels aka "star steelies" on a 74 2.0? Also, are the flat plastic center caps for these NLA? Thanks!

outer face.
silver - VW color L97u Grey Aluminium.
or RAL 9007. ask a paint shop for RAL 9007 you should get it mixed right.
(straight up single stage - it was a semi gloss or satin finish originally).

rear face.
black or very dark grey.


the centre caps are flat black plastic press ins.
Pelican Psrts used to have them but look to be NLA on their website.
the diam is 56mm outer.
these might work. close to the very plain originals.

https://www.amazon.com.au/56mm-Black-Wheel-...s/dp/B073SR3Q9J

this variety are available from VW classic parts retailers.
but its the one for beetles. looks like a fake nut.
not what 914s had. but it would fit.

https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-111-601-171-set/


wheel bolts had plastic press on covers. "fake bolts"
pelican still has them.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/1116...&DID=201382

also available from VW classic parts retailers

https://www2.cip1.com/stock-steel-wheels/

[914rrr]

What is the correct color and type of paint (metallic, non-metallic, single stage, etc.) used on 5.5 x 15 sport steel wheels aka "star steelies" on a 74 2.0? Also, are the flat plastic center caps for these NLA? Thanks!

outer face.
silver - VW color L97u Grey Aluminium.
or RAL 9007. ask a paint shop for RAL 9007 you should get it mixed right.
(straight up single stage - it was a semi gloss or satin finish originally).

rear face.
black or very dark grey.


the centre caps are flat black plastic press ins.
Pelican Psrts used to have them but look to be NLA on their website.
the diam is 56mm outer.
these might work. close to the very plain originals.

https://www.amazon.com.au/56mm-Black-Wheel-...s/dp/B073SR3Q9J

this variety are available from VW classic parts retailers.
but its the one for beetles. looks like a fake nut.
not what 914s had. but it would fit.

https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-111-601-171-set/


wheel bolts had plastic press on covers. "fake bolts"
pelican still has them.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/1116...&DID=201382

also available from VW classic parts retailers

https://www2.cip1.com/stock-steel-wheels/

Thanks for all the info !! BTW, if somebody has a couple of the center caps I'd appreciate it !! Condition unimportant.

I did see earlier in this thread where rattle can Wurth or Wyeth White Alloy paint is correct or close.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...4857&st=320

I was asking since I have a set of rusty star steelies that I want to put on my car during resto, along with a set of quasi-matching tires that hold air, plastic bolt caps and plastic center caps so it doesn't look quite so janky in the garage when the garage door opens. I currently live in a gated community / leased townhome and need to keep the neighbors happy.

I'd like to put a "10 footer" coat of rattle can paint on the wheels that is "close" to OE but doesn't cost $30 per can. Any tips on a lower cost alternative rattle can paint would be appreciated.