Going to build myself an engine, Hmmmm Options

[chris914]

I’ve never built an aircooled before but I’m going to try. I’ve swapped motors and setup long blocks in my Type 181.

What I have:

A mystery 72 1.7L running in my car with cylinder #3 knocking.
- IDF Weber 40 carburetors
- 009 distributor
- Stock headers with a Burch exhaust

A complete stock 1.7L with EFI that wouldn’t turn over.

Several boxes of parts to build a 2056 from.
- 1.8L heads and case
- 2.0L crank and rods
- New 96mm flat top pistons
- New Webcam 73 cam

And another complete box of EFI setup from Evilbay.

A set of IDF 44 Webers that need to be rebuilt.

And Jake’s Type 4 engine rebuild video.

I was going to build a 2056 (and still may) until I found out that doing so would move me to an autocross class (AI) full of 2.4L’s (and you know who you are) I’m now in AP and putting 1.8L heads 2.0L in a 72 (non-stock parts for that year) adds to many points and moves me to AI.

What’s the biggest displacement a 1.7L can be increased to by just pistons and barrels and still work well?

Is the Webcam 73 a good choice for a 2056?

Can I use my Weber IDF 40’s on a 2056?

Could I use my 1.7L EFI or should I?

Will my current exhaust work?

What a good basic rebuild kit that has all the gaskets, seals, and sealants?

I will also need barrels and bearing. Any suggestions?
What else will I need?

Can I build a 2056 or rebuild my 1.7L with the parts that I have for ~$2000?

My autcross season is over for now. So I’m hoping to have it built my the first of next year.

[degreeoff]

Just an Idea....spend the money on heads and a balance job, work the case to fit 94's (bored out) call it a day.

[mike373]

Hey Chris...

i am in the last stages of building my 2056. I am in San Diego too. I could help you out if you need it...as well as a couple other guys on here from San Diego. Do you need to buy a case? I have one. CAll if you like 858-361-4003

Mike

[McMark]

A 1911 might be a good choice.

[mattp]

I am in the same boat, I have a complete 2.0 engine in need of rebuild. I do not want to spend the money on the Raby complete rebuild kit (too duplicitous) but want to do a 2056 build. I have emailed Jakes site and have recieved a link to his complete kit. I have heads, crank, rods, case,
I want: pistons, cylinders (or can I have stock ones bored?), cam and gaskets

anyone do this?

[derekdenman]

I am just about done with my 2056, I started from a 2.0 though. I have spent roughly $4500 on this rebuild so far. ($4200 for parts, $300 for labor.)

[chris914]

I am just about done with my 2056, I started from a 2.0 though. I have spent roughly $4500 on this rebuild so far. ($4200 for parts, $300 for labor.)

Sounds like a lot of nice new parts.

I'm working towards a strong basic motor with some improvements.

Unless I can be talked into something bigger, lol. My kids are pretty smart. Hopefully they can get scholarships.

What can $2000 buy me?

[chris914]

So a 1.7 crank and rods, 96mm pistons and cylinders, and 1.7L heads with valves 42x36 will give me 1911.

What kind of HP will that make and what kind of reliability will it have?

Should I use the Webcam 73 in it?

Should I stick with the carburetors or use the 1.7L EFI?

Can you use a CDI and electronic ignition with stock EFI?

[mike373]

Chris....

That combo will make a solid 100hp.... Not with a web 73 cam though. Get the cam and lifters from Jake. (type4store.com) Stock efi will not work with a wilder cam than stock. If you are staying on the cheap.... go with dual carbs. And....get a mallory distributor.... also from Jake.

Mike

[chris914]

What is the Webcam 73 good for?

What cam should I put in a 1911?

[jimkelly]

fwiw - my understanding is that the 1.7 case and 1.7 heads will need machining to utilize 96mm PCs ?? This is why many start off with 1.8 case and heads I think ??

[G e o r g e]

ALL cases are the same (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[eeyore]

I was going to build a 2056 (and still may) until I found out that doing so would move me to an autocross class (AI) full of 2.4L’s (and you know who you are) I’m now in AP and putting 1.8L heads 2.0L in a 72 (non-stock parts for that year) adds to many points and moves me to AI.

This is where the letter of rules are adrift from reality. Compared to a true 2.0 with its better heads, there is no performance advantage from 1.8 heads. Its a loss. If I were to take a true 2.0 motor and put 1.8 heads on it & suffer the corresponding 5+ hp loss, I'd wind up taking 5 points for them? Dumb.

Build the 2056 with 1.8 heads. Run stock EFI.

I figure:
2 points for tires
2 points for displacement
That leaves 4 points left over for shocks & swaybar and you can run in CS with Jess. I doubt he'll protest you.

How did you wind up in AP anyway? Carbs & cam?

[Al Meredith]

I built a Raby 2056 with Len Hoffman heads and cam/lifters from Jake. 40MM webers with 34MM venturies and jetted a la Jake and it gets just what Jakes web site says 108 at the rear wheels BUT the torque is great +120 from 3200 to 5000 .

[chris914]

I was going to build a 2056 (and still may) until I found out that doing so would move me to an autocross class (AI) full of 2.4L’s (and you know who you are) I’m now in AP and putting 1.8L heads 2.0L in a 72 (non-stock parts for that year) adds to many points and moves me to AI.

This is where the letter of rules are adrift from reality. Compared to a true 2.0 with its better heads, there is no performance advantage from 1.8 heads. Its a loss. If I were to take a true 2.0 motor and put 1.8 heads on it & suffer the corresponding 5+ hp loss, I'd wind up taking 5 points for them? Dumb.

Build the 2056 with 1.8 heads. Run stock EFI.

I figure:
2 points for tires
2 points for displacement
That leaves 4 points left over for shocks & swaybar and you can run in CS with Jess. I doubt he'll protest you.

How did you wind up in AP anyway? Carbs & cam?

Class AP 9-20 (What I have now)
Tires 1
Sway bar 2
Springs 2
Carburetors 4
Non-stock distributor 1
Total 10

Class AI 21 -40
Tires 1
Sway bar 2
Springs 2
Heads 5 (because any other head except a 1.7L was not available in 1972)
Cam 5
Carburetors 4
Displacement increase 7 (1.7L to 2.0)
Non-stock distributor 1
Total 27

And if I’m in AI then I have to run with all the big fours like yours.

My car could never run in CS because 2.0L’s were not an option that year. I don’t care what class that I’m in, as long as I have a chance at being competitive.

From what I understand from talking with Steve G. you wouldn’t take points for putting 1.8 on a 2.0 motor as long they were both offered that year. That is were I’m getting screwed. Because the only motor options in 72 was the 1.7L and the 914-6. Could I put 6 heads on my 1.7L, lol. I do have a sawsall.

[eeyore]

Section III, paragraph L
In cases where entire engines and associated engine components are
replaced with a stock engine of higher horsepower, and no modifications
are made to this engine, entrants may take the following points instead of
items (f) through (k)

Under this rule I was told (by the same steward) that a 3.2 six installed into a 1.7 car takes points solely on power increase. Have you ever heard of a car with VIN 47xxx come from the factory with a six cylinder car? For that matter, I don't believe the 3.2 six was available until after 914 production ceased. If a 3.2 six is allowed, a Type 4 from any year should be allowed.

Section V MODEL RANGES
Update/Backdate - Major assemblies such as engines, brakes, suspension
or transmissions may be substituted with parts from the same series car. Model
ranges are defined in the chart below. Cars that are updated or backdated shall have all major assemblies updated and changed as a whole, or take the appropriate modification points. In order to be eligible for this provision of the rules, the car as modified must be functionally identical (mechanically, physically and aerodynamically) with the model to which it has been updated or backdated. Under those circumstances, the car is eligible to run in the same class as the model to which it has been modified to match.

A '72 and a 2.0 and you're 'CS' or 'CSS' instead of 'Ax'

[Jake Raby]

First off the Web 73 is a great carb cam- for a VW Bus, not a 914! The Web 73 with carbs has a powerband that is worthless in a sports car...
mattp,
we received your request and will assist you, however what you are doing is always the most difficult way to complete the project with the most variables. We will be returing your email this morning.

[JmuRiz]

I built a Raby 2056 with Len Hoffman heads and cam/lifters from Jake. 40MM webers with 34MM venturies and jetted a la Jake and it gets just what Jakes web site says 108 at the rear wheels BUT the torque is great +120 from 3200 to 5000 .

Wow, that sounds like a winner of a street engine w/o going big! I'm sure Len's heads make a WORLD of difference.

[chris914]

First off the Web 73 is a great carb cam- for a VW Bus, not a 914! The Web 73 with carbs has a powerband that is worthless in a sports car...
mattp,
we received your request and will assist you, however what you are doing is always the most difficult way to complete the project with the most variables. We will be returing your email this morning.

The box has Raby 73+ written on it and I was told that it may have come from you when I bought it. The only paper work in the box is the Webcam stuff. If it did come from you is it stock or could it have been re-ground?

[JPB]

Your answer,"Oh yes its a 2L engine check the stroke." After that, play with the competition. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/elnef.shtm