What tires should I use?, For some spirited street driving Options

[thomasotten]

It seems you save quite a bit of money buying the tires from Tirerack. For instance, the price I was quoted for the Fuzions was 58.99 from the local Firestone. Compare that with $44.00 each from Tirerack plus about $10 shipping per tire and you come out ahead. Then knock off the "road hazard" they always try to sell you. Anyone ever have any trouble getting the tire shops to mount tires you bought somewhere else?

[Dave_Darling]

Anyone that can quickly reccomend a tire for you from the multitudes on the market without playing 20 questions first just wants your $ and doesn't really care. ...

That much I can agree with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I do, however, disagree with your comments about the Azenis. I don't know if they're on top now, but 8-12 months ago they were the grippiest hard-compound tire you could buy. If all you care about is dry traction, they are absolutely fantastic!

Perfect? No, far from it--they are a set of compromises in the shape of a donut, just like any other tire. (And anyone who tells you there are "no compromises" in their tire also doesn't care and just wants your $$.) The Azenis are heavy, particularly when compared to other "street-class cheater tires" or R-compounds, they're quite noisy (you can even hear them over your 914!), they don't tend to last an awfully long time, and they're not very good in standing water and absolutely undriveable in the snow. They tend to get greasy when you put a good amount of heat into them, too.

That happens to fit my needs quite well, as does the reasonable price. [Holy crap! They're now over $90 each in 205/50-15? That's almost double what it used to be! OK, scratch the bit about "reasonable price"... ] But they still fit my own needs. As far as my car is concerned, they absolutely kick the living crap out of the RE-930s I used to have. That was the wrong tire for the wrong application.

Anyway, the Azenis is a tire that is all about gripping dry pavement. There may be better ones out there now, but even if someone has outdone them in that department, they are still pretty close to the top of the heap.

--DD

[Demick]

It seems you save quite a bit of money buying the tires from Tirerack. For instance, the price I was quoted for the Fuzions was 58.99 from the local Firestone. Compare that with $44.00 each from Tirerack plus about $10 shipping per tire and you come out ahead. Then knock off the "road hazard" they always try to sell you. Anyone ever have any trouble getting the tire shops to mount tires you bought somewhere else?

You're only saving $5 per tire. Hardly worth the trouble.

But you can still get the same deal - most big shops will match the price. So just go in and tell them the tire rack price, and they will usually match it (including shipping of course).

Also, tire prices and other costs are always negotiable. The tire guys will try to get as much as they can. If they match the tire price, then they will try to charge you more for stems, balancing, installation, etc. If you bring in tires that you ordered, they will usually charge you more for mounting and balancing than if you bought the tire from them.

But it definitely pays to do your homework. I usually go in and do the pricematch thing. I think that's the best way to get a good deal.

Also, check www.discounttiredirect.com to see if they have the tire you want. They seem to have very good prices. Shipping is included. And right now they will give an extra $25 off a set of 4 tires. That's probably a better deal than the shops will match, so that might be worth doing a mail order.

Demick

[thomasotten]

So if I am running 195/60/15 right now on 6" Fuchs, would a 205/55/15 look pretty similar, and would it fit? On my tightest rear fender, I can fit my pinky.

[IronHillRestorations]

I have a set of new Yokohama AVS in 195/60. $60 each plus shipping PM me if you are interested.

[woobn8r]

So if I am running 195/60/15 right now on 6" Fuchs, would a 205/55/15 look pretty similar, and would it fit? On my tightest rear fender, I can fit my pinky.

There is a real nice graphic in the "914 info" section of this site. It will show you relative sizing....fun too.

PLEASE NOTE...a 205/55R15 from one company may have different dimensions that the same size from another company (or even a different product line).

Just because somebody had a particular size that fit from company "X" it doesn't follow that the same size from company "Z" will fit also....this is due due to different construction, shoulder shape, cross sections.etc....

Best advice is to check the specs published by the manufacturer.

[woobn8r]

I do, however, disagree with your comments about the Azenis. I don't know if they're on top now, but 8-12 months ago they were the grippiest hard-compound tire you could buy. If all you care about is dry traction, they are absolutely fantastic!

Perfect? No, far from it--they are a set of compromises in the shape of a donut, just like any other tire. (And anyone who tells you there are "no compromises" in their tire also doesn't care and just wants your $$.) The Azenis are heavy, particularly when compared to other "street-class cheater tires" or R-compounds, they're quite noisy (you can even hear them over your 914!), they don't tend to last an awfully long time, and they're not very good in standing water and absolutely undriveable in the snow. They tend to get greasy when you put a good amount of heat into them, too.

That happens to fit my needs quite well, as does the reasonable price.

Anyway, the Azenis is a tire that is all about gripping dry pavement. There may be better ones out there now, but even if someone has outdone them in that department, they are still pretty close to the top of the heap.

--DD

Let's see...hmmm

dry grip,...Yup
rain...nope
mileage...nope
unsprung weight...nope
r-compound...nope
Quiet...nope
ride...?
Greasy...yup

Why do you like these again...?
The wonderful thing about technology is that it lessens the compromise you must make by raising the level of each characteristic...and different models of tires lean the compromises toward different areas...ride and comfort vs. pure performance for example....

Do you think for your hard earned $$$ that you could find a tire that did more than your Azenis? Would it be worth it if they cost a little more but performed in more of the mentioned categories? Maybe 8-12 months ago these were the grippiest hard compound you could find for forty bucks...but I doubt they are on a true performance/value top 10 list of available products.

I think if you look a bit you'll surprise yourself. Then again if you're happy with this product why switch? Some people actually like driving Hyundai Accents...

BTW: round, black and holds air describes a commodity...it's the performance characteristics, value and yes, style that discerns one tire from another. Because these are all different tires are never "just like any other tire" and are not a commodoty.

Cheers, Sean

[jwalters]

Well guys the Fuzion ZRi is a Bridgestone RE750 with a different mould...

>>> so you say?


Bridgestone offered them to the tuner market to compete with low priced tires as well as to build loyalty with a newer generation....they didn't want to spend $$$ to R&D a less expensive tire...so they "borrowed" a current casing and by calling it a new sales channel (with less of a budget and not a new company...same people too) made the best secret in the industry value wise

>>>"Fuzion" company is new - they are made in a different location than others

....Although your "Firestone" story was amusing..

>>> You find the reasoning behind firestone killing and mameing hundreds of people "amusing"?? Fuzion came out AFTER they killed allot of people - not BEFORE to sell to a tuner crowd --


.BTW Bridgestone is the Largest Tire and rubber company in the world and recovered from the voluntary recall shortly afterwards posting profits exceeding everyone in the industry...some others are still losing $$$.


>>> I never said Bridgestone division is failing - Firestone is - just so you do not confuse anybody please tell all what auto manufacturer still uses firestone tires as an OEM? Particularly compare oem now to oem before they killed people


MtM...The cheap tires are not new technology, the smaller companies just cannot invest the money in R&D that the big 2 can. Also their engineering is not upgraded...ok maybe a cosmetic face lift, but the casings are years out of date and nowhere near state of the art....(with the V700 victoracer proviso).



>>>So you are saying even tho it is not broken, because it is not "updated" is IS broken??



I venture to say that your dealer friend sells Hankook ...probably a few so he'd better stand behind them...but if he's a competitive auto -x guy I bet he'd get lower times with Hoosiers, BFGs, Toyo Ra1s or any other decent R compound tire....


>>> If you think Hankooks are good, just go buy a set of pepboy specials and see if you can ever balance them - they are made by Hankook and are absolute crap



Trust me, (I'm not making any money here) Tires to your car are like speakers to your audio system....if you go cheap it lowers the quality of the whole system..


>>>> Only rich people with money to burn would make such a statement



.but if you have never had a good system or can't tell the difference you'll be happy with crap...and some people are.



Anyone that can quickly reccomend a tire for you from the multitudes on the market without playing 20 questions first just wants your $ and doesn't really care.


>>Did you just call me and everybody else who has chimed in a cheat and a scam???



Car enthusiasts whether they can tell the difference or not usually care.... and in time will come to learn what they like in tires as others learn what they like in wine (it comes with experience).

But it still holds true...you get what you pay for.


>>> And as an MASTER ASE TECH I hold true to having found the absolute best dollar for the money tire made to date - my business is saving people money while ensuring thier safety. PERIOD.

These statements you make are causing you to come off brash - and insulting, think about how you said some of this stuff dude----I and others should be able to make a recommendation w/o you calling us cheats...

[purple]

To be perfectly honest guys, I'd like to see what this car can do with a tire that wasnt meant for football training... I'd like a tire that has excellent dry grip, isnt hazardous in the rain, has a firm ride, good turn in, and keeps the speedo relatively accurate.

The re960's seem nice, the hri's seem nice too. the fact that the fuzions are 1/2 the price of the bridgestones leads me to believe that something may be amiss with them. I'd also like to be able to go to a tire shop and leave with new shoes the same day. I'm just so sick of the trash tires on this car, I think that ANYTHING would be an improvement.

Thanks for all the input guys! This is awesome!

[woobn8r]

It seems you save quite a bit of money buying the tires from Tirerack. For instance, the price I was quoted for the Fuzions was 58.99 from the local Firestone. Compare that with $44.00 each from Tirerack plus about $10 shipping per tire and you come out ahead. Then knock off the "road hazard" they always try to sell you. Anyone ever have any trouble getting the tire shops to mount tires you bought somewhere else?

You're only saving $5 per tire. Hardly worth the trouble.

But you can still get the same deal - most big shops will match the price. So just go in and tell them the tire rack price, and they will usually match it (including shipping of course).

Also, tire prices and other costs are always negotiable. The tire guys will try to get as much as they can. If they match the tire price, then they will try to charge you more for stems, balancing, installation, etc. If you bring in tires that you ordered, they will usually charge you more for mounting and balancing than if you bought the tire from them.

But it definitely pays to do your homework. I usually go in and do the pricematch thing. I think that's the best way to get a good deal.

Also, check www.discounttiredirect.com to see if they have the tire you want. They seem to have very good prices. Shipping is included. And right now they will give an extra $25 off a set of 4 tires. That's probably a better deal than the shops will match, so that might be worth doing a mail order.

Demick

If the tire shop scratched you rim while mounting the tires would you expect him to refinish/replace your rim...If the tire is out of round (or defective) and the car shakes who will fix your problem?
From the dealers end the risk at $10-15 an install is not worth it. Most dealers prices are higher as they include install, balance a new valve and warranty the workmanship. Tire Rack does not have the expense or exposure to liability that the dealer does....I don't blame them for not installing what others sell.

[Joe Ricard]

Well if it came in the proper size the Bridgestone RE-01R is "THE" tire to have if you wish to stay in a street tire class.

Not good milage like less than 15K before you are buying a new set. Grip is awesome.

For a street tire that doesn't ever get pushed on, then what does it matter. Black, round, don't rub. DONE.

I have had the Hankook Rs-2 on my 914 and am quite happy with them. Autocrossed 8 runs on them They were decent but not near DOT R tires. as expected.

[woobn8r]

Well guys the Fuzion ZRi is a Bridgestone RE750 with a different mould...

>>> so you say?I work for a Tire Manufacturer...I don't care if you don't believe me


Bridgestone offered them to the tuner market to compete with low priced tires as well as to build loyalty with a newer generation....they didn't want to spend $$$ to R&D a less expensive tire...so they "borrowed" a current casing and by calling it a new sales channel (with less of a budget and not a new company...same people too) made the best secret in the industry value wise

>>>"Fuzion" company is new - they are made in a different location than othersCheck your facts Fuzion is a sales "channel" not a new company...they do not have a dedicated facility. they are produced where costs are most advantagous.

....Although your "Firestone" story was amusing..

>>> You find the reasoning behind firestone killing and mameing hundreds of people "amusing"?? Fuzion came out AFTER they killed allot of people - not BEFORE to sell to a tuner crowd --Again, check you facts NHTSA cleared Firestone and the tires were not solely at fault...this is a complicated study where at the end of the day Firestone was not held at fault for any deaths. Deaths are never amusing. Are you saying that Bridgestone Firestone can not start a new sales channel to meet changing market needs?

.BTW Bridgestone is the Largest Tire and rubber company in the world and recovered from the voluntary recall shortly afterwards posting profits exceeding everyone in the industry...some others are still losing $$$.

>>> I never said Bridgestone division is failing - Firestone is - just so you do not confuse anybody please tell all what auto manufacturer still uses firestone tires as an OEM? Particularly compare oem now to oem before they killed peopleHow about General Motors (Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, Saturn), Nissan, Toyota, Dodge, Honda, Subaru, and even FORD and Mercury. Oh, Firestone is not failing...infact it is growing...number one in agricultural, mining and forrestry tires...passenger and light truck are a small portion of the pie....not to mention building products...

MtM...The cheap tires are not new technology, the smaller companies just cannot invest the money in R&D that the big 2 can. Also their engineering is not upgraded...ok maybe a cosmetic face lift, but the casings are years out of date and nowhere near state of the art....(with the V700 victoracer proviso).

>>>So you are saying even tho it is not broken, because it is not "updated" is IS broken??No, I am saying smaller companies use older technology. R&D costs money...if you want the best there is... it costs more.

I venture to say that your dealer friend sells Hankook ...probably a few so he'd better stand behind them...but if he's a competitive auto -x guy I bet he'd get lower times with Hoosiers, BFGs, Toyo Ra1s or any other decent R compound tire....

>>> If you think Hankooks are good, just go buy a set of pepboy specials and see if you can ever balance them - they are made by Hankook and are absolute crapI didn't say Hankooks are good...if you read and comprihended it, I said the opposite.


Trust me, (I'm not making any money here) Tires to your car are like speakers to your audio system....if you go cheap it lowers the quality of the whole system..

>>>> Only rich people with money to burn would make such a statementI'm not rich, it is a similie to demonstrate a concept.

.but if you have never had a good system or can't tell the difference you'll be happy with crap...and some people are.

Anyone that can quickly reccomend a tire for you from the multitudes on the market without playing 20 questions first just wants your $ and doesn't really care.

>>Did you just call me and everybody else who has chimed in a cheat and a scam???No, I haven't called anybody anything...I said that selecting the right tire for an application takes more than a size and a price book.

Car enthusiasts whether they can tell the difference or not usually care.... and in time will come to learn what they like in tires as others learn what they like in wine (it comes with experience).

But it still holds true...you get what you pay for.

>>> And as an MASTER ASE TECH I hold true to having found the absolute best dollar for the money tire made to date - my business is saving people money while ensuring thier safety. PERIOD.

[color=#33FF33]My business is Tires...I'd like to know how much study is devoted to tires in the ASE curriculum.

These statements you make are causing you to come off brash - and insulting, think about how you said some of this stuff dude----I and others should be able to make a recommendation w/o you calling us cheats...

I did not have the intent of insulting anyone...just sharing my opinion and 12 years tire manufacturing experience (and 18 years racing experience) with those who don't have the benefit of being in the industry.

You sound angry...you should chill and not take things so personally...that means don't put things in other peoples mouths....nobody called anyone a "cheat"...

[jwalters]

You sound angry...you should chill and not take things so personally...that means don't put things in other peoples mouths....nobody called anyone a "cheat"...
[/quote]
[/quote]

No-no, not angry - and not taking things personally - however you did make mention that people chiming in w/o asking 20 questions are 'cheats', it was inferred - intelligent people know the difference -sorry, you did. And just because you work in the industry, well it is obvious you do not work for bridg / firestone or you would have claimed to. To know that much about another companies secrets which are kept on the order of national type secrets is worth pondering -

I work for a global manufacturer who is moving very fast past everyone else and has the deepest connections within the tire industry as a whole - and as a master tech I am privy (by Toyota) to alot of things most people(99%) are not - this is how I am able to do my job of keeping the public safe and continually improving on the stellar brand of Toyota. A vast majority of company improvements come from the field from guys and gals who do the work like myself - like it is said "an engineer cannot build squat, only point the way for the technician to shows it's deficiencies and make it work better". Do you see how we can be in the same "operation" and yet one know much more than the other --

BTW - all those manufacturers you claim to use firestone as an oem are false, way, way false, checks those facts again - especially Toyota - they will not touch firestone with a 10 foot pole hanging from your hand - and who really cares if they are big in the ag. industry - really.

The Fuzions are much more inexpensive because like it has been pointed out - they use a proven base which has been in production for many years w/o fault. The youngsters with bright ideas designed the new improved tread -(Some came from firestone some from bridgestone, some from other places) The engineers who made up the fuzion brand do not simply wash thier hands and start on another brands latest and greatest - they continue working for THAT same brand. The compound has also been tweeked - this was direct response to the firestone fiasco - and yes the tires themselves were not at fault, a human being was. But who's responsibility was it to monitor that human being?? Firestone????????


This is good candor -

What it comes down to is some believe in order to have quality you must pay out the ass - -

Others are anti-thetical to this belief with data to back it up

[purple]

I'm sorry I created a pissing match...I just wanted some advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I hope you guys can find your way to bury the hatchet here.

[thomasotten]

I like tires...

[jwalters]

I'm sorry I created a pissing match...I just wanted some advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I hope you guys can find your way to bury the hatchet here.

Purple there is no pissing match here....it is words typed on a keyboard, no facial expressions, no verbal tense, no hand gestures, just a group of guys having a grown-up conversation, some agreeing, some disagreeing, some neutral. To disagree is not bad, it is good!

Do not ever feel like you cannot speak your mind or stand up for what you believe, especially here. I spent 16 years in the military defending this right of ours and I know all too well that if one lets themself be pushed around and talked down to it only gets worse for them. Believe me, there are a few members here that I am convinced would commit murder if they had a chance in hell to get away with it --

Take this conversation for what it is WORTH! Here you have a group of guys telling it like it is. Even better, you and everyone else has a guy affiliated with tire manufacture and proclaims that cheap = poor quality and a guy affiliated with evaluating these same tires on a continuinig basis and letting all know that you CAN get very high quality for less than most!!- it does not get any better than this dude. Plus you have others chiming in about thier chosen skins -even better


This is prime opportunity to see more than two sides to the coin and make an informed decision

I love this site - it has always been this way and always will...

This little fact gets lost all too commonly by a few who seem to live in glass houses and take every little comment as an attack - Believe me, you will get attacked someday by a blithering ass-hole who will stop at nothing to berate and badger and bad mouth -it always happens. This is the difference with typed words -

So it is all good Purple, it is all good--

[jwalters]

I like tires...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=26994&hl=

Thomas, and anyone else - follow the link above and you will see pics of my teener with the Fuzions - Thought I would never find it, but I did..


J (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sean_v8_914]

I dont care what anyone says if I have already tried something for myself
teh Fallkin Azinis are the best bang for teh buck if dry spirited driving grip is your goal.
tires, colors, flavors...pick teh one you like. ALOT of fast Porsche drivers like teh Azinis. I like my new Toyo RA-1s too but they would not last long on teh street

[purple]

Like the other guys said in the thread....why's it look lifted?

195 65r15 fuzions look like what i'll be doing. just gotta find out where to find them in houston

thanks guys

[Scott Carlberg]

Usually by this time, someone chimes in about how they love those ugly ES100's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I had the Yoko ES 100s in 205/15-50 and really like them.

Good Grip in the Wet & Dry.