What tires should I use?, For some spirited street driving Options

[purple]

Hey Guys,

As I'm nearing completion of my fuel system resto on my teener...I'm faced with the choice of tires, as the first stop for me is going to be discount tire for a balancing; as the car shimmies when I get around 65 mph, then a trip to gashead motorworks for an alignment, as it pulls to the right. I was thinking, since I'm at DT, mayhaps I should put some new shoes on there.

I HATE the tires on the teener, they are 185 65 R15's from god knows who...they say HR metric. They have ZERO grip and I've almost spun the car twice because of their utter lack of traction...and my utter lack of skill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/owned.gif)


I'd like some recommendations from you guys...I was thinking of some Falken Azenis in 205 50 r 15's, but I've found on here that they are so small the engine is really revved up on the highway, and I would like to take the car to galveston a few times, and screaming engines on the highway would get annoying, as houston highway speeds are in the 80's.


Any recommendations for me that DONT involve flares, 5 lugs, or prayers to Ra, god of the sun?

Having a somewhat accurate speedo would be nice...
I'm running stock 15X5.5 Mahle's with a 2 inch drop.
This car is unlikely to see a whole lot of track time until I put my dual 40's on it...

[jwalters]

Like the other guys said in the thread....why's it look lifted?

195 65r15 fuzions look like what i'll be doing. just gotta find out where to find them in houston

thanks guys

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Come on dude - no engine - no trans - no interior - no gas tank - Stiff springs, etc etc... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) When you break yours down to redo it - it will look the same, trust me

[jwalters]

Usually by this time, someone chimes in about how they love those ugly ES100's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I had the Yoko ES 100s in 205/15-50 and really like them.

Good Grip in the Wet & Dry.


the 430's are real popular here at Toyota

quick edit - if you drive a camry or van - these are decent for that plush feeling in the ass ---
j

[purple]

Like the other guys said in the thread....why's it look lifted?

195 65r15 fuzions look like what i'll be doing. just gotta find out where to find them in houston

thanks guys

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Come on dude - no engine - no trans - no interior - no gas tank - Stiff springs, etc etc... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) When you break yours down to redo it - it will look the same, trust me

hehe, looks lifted like my old miata did...from the factory, well, that actually looked like an infinity fx

[Dave_Darling]

dry grip,...Yup
rain...nope
mileage...nope
unsprung weight...nope
r-compound...nope
Quiet...nope
ride...?
Greasy...yup

Why do you like these again...?

Dry-pavement grip--as stated. No other hard-compound tire beat it.

Remember, the Azenis spent the first couple of years of the "street-tire" autoX class existance completely dominating at all levels. It's not a perfect tire by any means, but there is no such thing as a perfect tire. That one happened to be designed to do one particular thing, and do it very well indeed! Better, in fact, than any other comparable (hard-compound) tire.

It didn't hurt that, at the time, they were about $50 each in 205/50-15.

Do you think for your hard earned $$$ that you could find a tire that did more than your Azenis? Would it be worth it if they cost a little more but performed in more of the mentioned categories? Maybe 8-12 months ago these were the grippiest hard compound you could find for forty bucks...but I doubt they are on a true performance/value top 10 list of available products.

Doubling the price certainly didn't help their value quotient, that's for sure! But they are still near the top of the hard-compound tire pile. In fact, less than six months ago Grassroots Motorsports did a street-tire autoX test, and the Azenis came out on top again. The difference was much smaller than it had been, and apparently some of the "amost as grippy" tires were better in some of the other categories I mentioned. If I were willing to accept less grip, I could have some of those other things. But that's not what I am interested in.

Because these are all different tires are never "just like any other tire" and are not a commodoty.

Very true indeed!! Tires are, as most things are, a set of compromises. Do you want long life, or high grip? Do you want low noise, or superior water evacuation? Do you want feedback from the road, or a comfortable ride? Do you want to drive in the desert, or in snow? They all have different trade-offs that have been made in the designs.

With time and research, they do get better. You can get longer life for the same grip, or more grip with an equivalent lifespan. And so on. But there are always other ways to trade things off... And the biggest companies don't necessarily make the best tires for each specific application, because there are so many possible applications.

Making a blanket statement like "all XXX tires are bad" is nonsense--especially when you have people with first-hand experience that at least some XXX tires are good for some particular purpose. Most especially when that purpose has an easily-measured metric (e.g., lap times) and the XXX tire has consistently been the best.

--DD

[purple]

With respect to the Azenis...I really would like to put those on, but they affect the gear ratios too much because of their smallness. Can anyone here tell me how fast the engine spins when you're going say 70mph(my default cruising speed around here)

[blitZ]

With respect to the Azenis...I really would like to put those on, but they affect the gear ratios too much because of their smallness. Can anyone here tell me how fast the engine spins when you're going say 70mph(my default cruising speed around here)

You can make these comparisons here:

Tire size calculator

[woobn8r]

DD I agree with your statements...and if the Azenis suits your particular needs that is great...that's why tires are all different...I'm going to assume you auto -x in a class where "R" compounds are prohibited....my original comments to purple are directed for selecting a tire apropriate to street driving in more varied conditions.(see, I should have asked you more questions)...lol

To clarify, I never said "all XXX tires are bad" ...my point is that smaller companies cannot produce state of the art tires as they cannot afford the R&D.

In the case of the Azenis it is possible to have a small company produce a tire that does 1 thing well, heck, mabe even 2 but modern technology allows designers to produce tires that do everything better...of course that does not mean that the designs have held "dry grip" as the overriding priority...especially in a non "R" compound.

And I supose my priorities are different from yours so I would expect more from my street tires.

jw. Glad you are not angry or taking things personally...

But be very clear on this...I did NOT say or infer anyone was a "CHEAT".

The statement about asking questions revolves around professionalism....there are many tires on the market, there are many cars in the market, there are many different driving styles of people that use their cars for different things.
Having said all of that if a tire professional is reccomending a tire to someone to purchase...to get the PROPER application you must ask the end user a lot of questions to find the right tire(s) to present.
people selling tires often find a size and give the "cheapest price" or reccomend what they have in stock, or what they make the most margin on...these people are not "cheats" they just do not have the end users best interests at heart. Also, just because a person has found a "value" tire that suits "their" own needs does not mean that that tire is right for the next customer through the door. You should not manke assumptions on a customer's needs...better to ask and be sure.

As for my employer, well, this is a PUBLIC board...and I am not representing my employer. I share my knowledge and experience as a 914 enthusiast and ex racer. Please don't assume who I work for or what information I am privy to. You don't have to believe me as we have never met and this is just electronic communication, but I am telling you (and everyone) how I see it. I suppose it's worth what you pay...

Regarding the O.E. fittments...I just pulled a book from the shelf in my office for FIRESTONE passenger and light truck Original Equipment 2007. It reads TOYOTA Sienna, Firestone Affinity P215/65R15 amongst all the others I stated. I may be wrong, but then all of FIRESTONE is using the same book...you decide.

I am happy you like the Fuzion tires so much. They are designed, sold and made by Bridgestone Firestone (again you don't have to believe me...but you should)...In the context of the original posts it again proves that smaller companies cannot build cutting edge technology tires...in this case Bridgestone Firestone decided to take some market share where these smaller companies usually play...and offered a great tire at a fantastic price.

Please note that throughout this discussion I have not mentioned "quality" as any manufacturer using old or new technology can build "quality" tires. For example COOPER tire, a US tire manufacturer has a reputation for QUALITY made tires (made in the US) although they have extremely outdated technology. So if their product suits a particular persons needs it is a good tire to consider. Don't confuse "quality" and "technology".

[thomasotten]

I'm thinking of getting either of these two in 195/60/15:

BFGoodrich Traction T/A
(IMG:http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bfg/bfg_traction_ta_hv_6r_ci2_l.jpg)
Bridgestone Potenza G009
(IMG:http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bridgestone/bs_potenza_g009_ci2_l.jpg)

I also like the Fuzions, but I am not sure if that sort of thread design/sidewall would work appearance wize with Fuchs.

[purple]

So now I have a little problem...I jacked the ass of the car up yesterday and found that my right rear has rubbed in the past, dunno if it still is. I think it's because the car has been lowered.

This is with 185 65r15's, wont 205 50 r15's rub MORE? or 195's?

I realize these bodies were handmade and have some variations, but would putting new wider tires make for more rubbing?

[thomasotten]

Be careful! This same thing happened to me, turned out to be a rotted suspension console!

[purple]

That would suck bad if that's what's up. The P.O. replaced the bushing on this suspension arm because of the rubbing. It's rubbing on the inside of the fender.

I'd probably be investing in a welder if that's what's going on

[thomasotten]

Mine rubbed on the outside fender, and you could kick the tire and it had play. But anyway, back to tires... what about those two that I posted? Does anyone have some pics of Fuzions mounted to Fuchs? I don't want a Ricer looking tire.

[blitZ]

Here are some fookin Fuzions on Fuchs. Hope it helps.

[thomasotten]

Looks good, but you did have to pull the fender a bit, right?

[blitZ]

Looks good, but you did have to pull the fender a bit, right?

Just a little.

[dlo914]

I have been using Hankook RS-Z212s for a while and I like them. Lots of grip, cheap, and available in 195-50. Yes it increases the revs a bit on the highway, but its not THAT bad and keeps me under 90 mph for the most part (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Just recently I put a set of Azenis on the front and they are even stickier.

-Tony

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) i just picked up a pair of Hankook RS2's today for my Corolla GTS and these are quite awesome! Surprisingly quiet when driving normally and cornering. Also only paid $85/each in size 205/45/16's. Would highly recommend this tire! They're said to be a tad below the Azenis in performance and you get better wet traction w/ these RS2's. (IMG:http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h88/danlo830/PICT3609.jpg)

[maf914]

The tread pattern on the Bridgestone G-009 in Thomasotten's post and the Fuzion in Blitz's post are quite similar. And they are both Bridgestone-Firestone products... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I will need tires to replace my old Yoko AVS Intermediates in 205/60 x 15 and have been studying the various tire web sites. There aren't a lot of high performance tires available in that size. I recently replaced tires on our Acura RSX with Bridgestone RE960 and have been pleased with them so far. So, for the 914 I'm considering the Bridgestone RE960 and G-009, Yoko ES 100, and BF Goodrich G-Force. I know this selection is not the highest performance in the world, but unless I go to lower aspect ratio or go to 16" wheels, I think it's about the best one can do. I want dry and wet performance and am leaning toward the RE960's.

[thomasotten]

I went and looked at the Fuzions and they looked pretty awesome, but really nothing like the G009.

(IMG:http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/fuzion/fuzion_zri_ci2_l.jpg)

Another one that I looked at was the Bridgstone RE750

(IMG:http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bridgestone/bs_potenza_re750_ci2_l.jpg)

That one looked pretty nice too. I am just worried about tire rubbing with the 205/55 size. I have .36" clearance on the tightest side, so the size should work, but I am still not 100% certain. To rolling of the fenders can happen here, the car has fresh paint and I can't risk cracking the body filler.

[woobn8r]

If ya got the $ the RE960 is a much better tire thasn the G009....we call 'em "goonies"....they are an entry level performance tire...The Zri Fuzion is better too IMHO. not sure about the Hri as I have not driven them.

When comparing these particular tires look at the shape of the shoulder and contour of the casing (specifically the sidewal) and you'll see the difference.

S.

[thomasotten]

Well, i went ahead and ordered a set of these new Falken 912s. They replace the 512. THey seem to get good reviews on the Audi and VW forums, so we will see. I'll post pics and impressions when they arrive. $231 shipped from VulcanTire.com

(IMG:http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/tires/falhh8.ang.jpg)