Certificate of Authenticity, How accurate is yours? Options

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Time to time, the Porsche Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) is referenced and not infrequently the data is deemed inaccurate or inconsistent.

I applied and received mine almost 12 years ago and the specification contained therein, though sparse, is accurate. I don't know if the fact that my car was an early example (when record keeping was of more importance), because I applied a (relatively) long time ago, that I had a pretty basic car (compared to later editions), or was just plain lucky that my CoA was not botched.

Here's what it looks like, issued October 1995........

[orthobiz]

I have not ordered mine (yet).

What it doesn't look like is a document that costs more than 100 bucks!!!

Meanwhile, I had F&R sways put on my car so the best I could hope for
is my COA had sway bars and the previous owner removed them! (lol)

Paul

[Pat Garvey]

Time to time, the Porsche Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) is referenced and not infrequently the data is deemed inaccurate or inconsistent.

I applied and received mine almost 12 years ago and the specification contained therein, though sparse, is accurate. I don't know if the fact that my car was an early example (when record keeping was of more importance), because I applied a (relatively) long time ago, that I had a pretty basic car (compared to later editions), or was just plain lucky that my CoA was not botched.

Here's what it looks like, issued October 1995........

I got me first one on 1991. It was an outrageous $20. Lost it & got another one in 2004 ($90) - they are about $100 now. And, as is always the case, found my earlier one about 6 weeks after getting the current one.

My 914 is a '72 & I'm the original owner.

Both COA's list my car as having "Norwegian equipment". Now, if I was supposed to get a tall, young blonde with my car, I was screwed! If not, anyone (DavePlnow what Norwegian equipment is? I bought the car in Cincinnati, which, last I heard, doesn't have a large population of Danes, Swedes, etc.

Pat

[Gustl]

I ordered both, the COA as well as the german pendant back in 2001. These days, the german "document" was free ... and I also got the COA for free, although I've no idea why? PCNA told me to send a cheque of US$ 30 and so I did - but they never charged it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Anyhow, interesting details are that both docs list the same optional equipments, but the german paper says the transmission number and tan leatherette, and the COA says no tranny number recorded and the interior should be black with partial leather (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Gustl

[JeffBowlsby]

I have seen a few dozen of these newly-issued COAs over the last few years from LE owners...and I dont recall ever seeing one that was correct the first time it was issued.

So I spoke with PCNA about the process and they told me that the factory production records are like an excel worksheet listing code numbers for each vehicle/equipment and they have to translate them iinto the text they list on the COAs. Their method of translating the factory data and the lack of consistency is flawed and it seems like they just guess sometimes. At the least, they are not careful enough to us pinheaded types requiring accuracy. It is somehow 'better' for them to issue 2-3 COAs and revisions, than for them to get it right the first time. I think their inefficiencies have everything to do with why they are so expensive.

PCNA is however very willing to do whatever it takes to make the COAs right and they seem like they are at least attempting to do their best, but the process could definitely be improved.

[Johny Blackstain]

I have seen a few dozen of these newly-issued COAs over the last few years from LE owners...and I dont recall ever seeing one that was correct the first time it was issued.

So I spoke with PCNA about the process and they told me that the factory production records are like an excel worksheet listing code numbers for each vehicle/equipment and they have to translate them iinto the text they list on the COAs. Their method of translating the factory data and the lack of consistency is flawed and it seems like they just guess sometimes. At the least, they are not careful enough to us pinheaded types requiring accuracy. It is somehow 'better' for them to issue 2-3 COAs and revisions, than for them to get it right the first time. I think their inefficiencies have everything to do with why they are so expensive.

PCNA is however very willing to do whatever it takes to make the COAs right and they seem like they are at least attempting to do their best, but the process could definitely be improved.

I have to say Jeff my LE COA hit it dead on, the very first pitch. Never got another & seems pretty accurate to me, except for the DOB. Ths six is another story.

[TJB/914]

Jeff,

Thanks for the real COA story. I also believe the earlier COA's were more accurate. I suggest everyone go back to Porsche for more detailed info if your not satisified. For what they charge you deserve accurate information.

Tom
BTW: I know this is a little off subject, but here is my take on the current status of Porsche.
About 5-6 years ago Porsche had a top executives visiting a PCA Parade event. All he could talk about was how much money Porsche made to a group of people buying these overpriced cars. All he could do was smurk about record profits & poke fun at the people buying Porsche cars. I heard he was taken to the wood shed for this speech and quietly hushed up. At that time I realized the Porsche factory is no longer about history & tradition, it's about making money$$. I believe many groups like the 914 don't fit their sales expections for potential sales, because we are the bottom feeding owners. They play to the deep pocket groups for future sales. They are smart marketing people & use historical history to sell Porsche cars. Things are now changing at top mgt. & they are mainly concerned about taking over VW to blend into the Porsche origanization for world sales. I don't feel bad about this, I am just glad I understand the Porsche factory. When I decide to buy a new car I'll treat Porsche like they treat us. I will buy the best car value for my money. Porsche is just like all the other car companies today. Times are different today. I don't have loyalty with them anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I forgot to mention I still like my 33-year old 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
Tom (my opinion & 2-cents worth).

[TJB/914]

Here's mine from 1992 & it's accurate.

Tom

[IronHillRestorations]

The COA thing used to be reasonable. Now it is just a cash cow for Porsche. Sure they don't sell a bunch for old cars, but at the price they are charging, c'mon it doesn't take a hundred bucks to provide the scant info they do.

[JeffBowlsby]

But its the only official proof for an 914 LE car.

[Pat Garvey]

Jeff,

Thanks for the real COA story. I also believe the earlier COA's were more accurate. I suggest everyone go back to Porsche for more detailed info if your not satisified. For what they charge you deserve accurate information.

Tom
BTW: I know this is a little off subject, but here is my take on the current status of Porsche.
About 5-6 years ago Porsche had a top executives visiting a PCA Parade event. All he could talk about was how much money Porsche made to a group of people buying these overpriced cars. All he could do was smurk about record profits & poke fun at the people buying Porsche cars. I heard he was taken to the wood shed for this speech and quietly hushed up. At that time I realized the Porsche factory is no longer about history & tradition, it's about making money$$. I believe many groups like the 914 don't fit their sales expections for potential sales, because we are the bottom feeding owners. They play to the deep pocket groups for future sales. They are smart marketing people & use historical history to sell Porsche cars. Things are now changing at top mgt. & they are mainly concerned about taking over VW to blend into the Porsche origanization for world sales. I don't feel bad about this, I am just glad I understand the Porsche factory. When I decide to buy a new car I'll treat Porsche like they treat us. I will buy the best car value for my money. Porsche is just like all the other car companies today. Times are different today. I don't have loyalty with them anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I forgot to mention I still like my 33-year old 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
Tom (my opinion & 2-cents worth).

Tom, I hear what your saying & agree. Porsche's profits are amazing, and it's not just from the sale of cars. Porsche realized before they built Weissach, that they were a small cog in the wheel of auto production, yet they had an extreme wealth of engineering. Through the years they've used that W facility as a testing ground for many of the things we take for grated on our daily drivers, and extracted serious wealth from consulting & designing for just about every manufacturer. They were truely the quiet conqueror amongst small manufacturers. Made & hoarded lots of cash during the 80's & 90's. Easilly staved off takeover attempts.
Back in '82, I was fortunate enough & had a wily broker to get 3 lousy shares of Porsche on the Euro market. It's not worth a huge fortune, but try to buy shares today!

The Good Doctor, I'm ceratin, never expected Porsche to become what it has. I'm also cerain he never thought, or dreamed, that they would become the overwhelming shareholder of VW. I just hope they inject what's needed to make VW a marque that people want to buy again, because I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole ( & I've had seven).

What I see as a major problem with Porsche is getting the executive staff to stop listening to the bean counters (I am one) & let the engineers decided the course of the company. If they don't do this thing correctly...they WILL be taken over, probably by a very deep pockets private conglomerate (example, the goofy named company that bought Chrysler) who will destroy the company. Well, maybe not destroy it because it's very closely held. But, sooner or later, there will be realative who wants to break the mold & make some huge money.

We live in a time where gathering money is paramount to principle.

My opinion & I'm not particularly happy with it. MOINPHWI (think I just coined something new!
Pat
PS - I guess the cherries are pretty much gone now. I REALLY miss those July fat bastards!

[davep]

Anyhow, interesting details are that both docs list the same optional equipments, but the german paper says the transmission number and tan leatherette, and the COA says no tranny number recorded and the interior should be black with partial leather

If even one paper shows the transmission number (and providing it is correct), then it proves that the transmission number WAS recorded. Perhaps PCNA has a spreadsheet that is somewhat lacking in details, or they do not know how to read it. Whatever the case, the result is surely not worth the price they charge.

I corresponded with Brad Ripley, but he did not remember much about the 914 database. I think he spent his time rummaging through the 356 database looking for the nuggets in the gravel.

I think I need an 'old curmudgeon' smilie.

[Pat Garvey]

Does anyone have any "history" with 914's that were "converted" on the dealer's lot. Like, non-appearance group cars converted to appearance group?
And, would that conversion have been retro-recorded to the COA?

And, I'm still waiting, what does "Norwegian equipment" mean?
Pat

[Pat Garvey]

Lest anyone think I was joking about the Norwegian Equipment.....

Yet, the COA for my '73 911 is right on!

Guess the 914 really was the Porsche stepchild - they didn't even bother with accurate data for it!

[JeffBowlsby]

There was discussion of Norwegian equipment a couple years ago on the 914club site, try searching there. I recall it was nothing more than a Norwegian owners manual. Memory could be fading though...

[TedK]

Just got my COA, body color and interior are correct. Listed options are:

Safety Steering Wheel - Leather
White Fog Lights Was there a choice??
Tinted Windshield and Side Glass Aren't they all this way?
Center Seat Cushion


I picked up the car last month and promptly put it in the back yard under cover. LEATHER STEERING WHEEL? I hadn't even noticed. Just went outside, lifted the cover and, yes! a leather wheel in good condition. Center seat cushion is there too. So far so good.

[davep]

We do have a handle on Spanish equipment, but no others I know of. I have tried to contact the person that was able to obtain the info, but have not heard yet.

I suspect it has to do with a particular combination of options. Safety glass, sealed beam headlights, speedo in metric or miles, heated rear window. Such things as a national regulatory body would dictate. Same as smog equipment, seat belts, bumper horns and so on.

So why does it show up on USA spec cars? Perhaps that has more to do with the person interpreting the Cardex codes. It may also have to do with the recording of the optional equipment at the factory. It would all be in the codes used in the Cardex. I'd much rather have them give me the codes for my car, the key to the codes, and let me interpret it myself.

As far as tinted glass. That was certainly an option. Not very common in Canada, I had to get my door glass at Auto Atlanta years ago. OTOH heated rear windows were seen on almost all 914 in Canada. But lest you think that Canadian cars were copies of US cars, think again. We most certainly had our own owners manuals, and not all the specs are the same, even accounting for the missing fifth of a gallon you poor blokes suffer from.

[Pat Garvey]

There was discussion of Norwegian equipment a couple years ago on the 914club site, try searching there. I recall it was nothing more than a Norwegian owners manual. Memory could be fading though...

No, nothing of ths sort.

It's blatant error, and I've pissed about it for years!

One error I can accept. Two is outrageous

My 914 is a plain & simple '72 with app grp. Nothing fancy, nothing unusual. So, I want trecord straight. So, I'm going after them. I'll be on them like stink on sh_t until the get it right. I won't accept a refund. I want it right!

I'll keep you up to date. The firestorm starts Sunday! Yeah, I'm a little perturbed.
Pat

[davep]

Pat, your COA states optional equipment as Norwegian equipment and the center seat cushion. Okay, so I'm not sure of the base level for the car, but I suspect that the Appearance group is at least one option included in the Norwegian equipment. What about wheels; what was base then, 4.5" and you have 5.5"? Rear window defrost?

Detail exactly what the car has that we would, as judges, call options.
Let us try to reverse engineer this. What 'model' does the maintenance book say your car is, 473xxx?

Find the transmission number also. If you try to beat up on PCNA regarding the accuracy of the COA, be well informed first. Ask if the transmission number that you have corresponds with any entry in their Cardex. They don't list the engine code, that we have to determine from the serial number they provide, the year, and how it fits for that date for the years that had multiple engine types. Ask for the actual data recorded for your car, then let us try to decode it also. We have no real idea in what form the data is recorded, but I suspect there are a few serial numbers and a bunch of option codes. I'd guess that with a little more input we could do a better job of decoding the Cardex than they can.

[Pat Garvey]

Pat, your COA states optional equipment as Norwegian equipment and the center seat cushion. Okay, so I'm not sure of the base level for the car, but I suspect that the Appearance group is at least one option included in the Norwegian equipment. What about wheels; what was base then, 4.5" and you have 5.5"? Rear window defrost?

Detail exactly what the car has that we would, as judges, call options.
Let us try to reverse engineer this. What 'model' does the maintenance book say your car is, 473xxx?

Find the transmission number also. If you try to beat up on PCNA regarding the accuracy of the COA, be well informed first. Ask if the transmission number that you have corresponds with any entry in their Cardex. They don't list the engine code, that we have to determine from the serial number they provide, the year, and how it fits for that date for the years that had multiple engine types. Ask for the actual data recorded for your car, then let us try to decode it also. We have no real idea in what form the data is recorded, but I suspect there are a few serial numbers and a bunch of option codes. I'd guess that with a little more input we could do a better job of decoding the Cardex than they can.

My maintenance book lists only the VIN, but here the specifics for the car:

VIN: 4722918725
Chassis: 2349554
Engine: EA048898
Trans: 914/11HA0048848
Final Assembly: 06/72
Purchase Date: 8/21/72
Purchase Price: $4295.50
Colors: Bahia Red/Black
Options: Appearance Group, which included tinted windshield, deluxe carpeting, felt roof headliner, center cushion, chrome F&R bumpers, vinyl sail panel & trim, leather wrapped steering wheel, foglights, 5.5" steel wheels & 165 series tires.

How should I best proceed?
Pat