Mallory Unilite + Promaster + Ballast = PURE SECKS, Engine now starts, after some pain Options

[purple]

Hey guys, this is something of a continuation thread with it's own branch off the first thread here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76175

I installed a mallory promaster e-coil, a ballast resistor, and a mallory unilite from jake.

I wired it up EXACTLY to the specs in the manual that came with the unilite. I have my timing light and it's showing the mark for TDC on #1 as the engine turns over, so it's throwing spark.

I get NO catch at all on the engine, regardless how far i advance or retard the timing.

Some backstory here: the p.o had some timing marks set up on the fan and they looked good. I pull off the distributor as I rotate the engine by the tire and it turns out it's on cylinder 3. the timing marks are there for cylinder 3. what was wierd though, the marks are there and i could see a timing mark the p.o. painted on there with the timing light on cylinder 1. WTF is going on here? Is it possible the cam is installed 180* off? will the engine even run that way? please help me!!!!!

I rotated the engine to #1 TDC, which was also marked, and then painted my advance mark from the pelican website.

the timing as fully advanced was around 2 -4 degrees below the mark that was there when the engine was running, explaining a lot of how it was running.

The mark on the bottom of the flywheel corresponds to NO cylinder.

i'm so friggen bummed about this engine as it seems VW canada was smoking copious amounts of BC bud when they were making it...

[Spoke]

The engine ran before so the cam should be installed correct, right? If you put in a new distributor, perhaps check the plug wires for correct wiring?

If the engine won't run at all, maybe do a sanity check by pulling a wire and get an old plug, ground the plug and see if you see spark. If you have spark on all 4 wires, then it sounds like the wires may be mixed up.

Spoke

[Brando]

The engine ran before so the cam should be installed correct, right? If you put in a new distributor, perhaps check the plug wires for correct wiring?

If the engine won't run at all, maybe do a sanity check by pulling a wire and get an old plug, ground the plug and see if you see spark. If you have spark on all 4 wires, then it sounds like the wires may be mixed up.

Spoke

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Follow the Mallory MSD instructions on testing the unit.

[purple]

it's a mallory unilite distributor, not an msd unit.

and I have the plug wires correctly connected.

the engine will stumble and try to catch, but it jus wont ignite

[Joe Ricard]

Look quit being a stuborn *&^%$

Index the engine to TDC #1 Cylinder DO NOT USE THE TIMING WARKS OF THE DAPO.
Pull the valve cover observe both valves closed for #1 and then observe the piston coming up to TDC through the spark plug hole. use a plastic straw of something soft.

Now see where the rotor is in relation to the cap and plug wire for #1.

Are you lined up for a spark to the right hole?

1 4 3 2 (firing order) # 1 cylinder is identified by the big huge number stamped on the tin.

[purple]

i'm not being stubborn.

i pulled the plugs on all but #1 and rotated the wheel with the tranny in 5th until i could feel the compression coming up.

it just so happens that th DAPO had a mark at the exact right place, i added my own marks for advance using the pelican template.

does the rotor in #1 face the forward right of the car? because that's how mine is. the plug wires are connected in 1432 order.

it's not for lack of trying i really did read up on this before i tried it

[cgnj]

use a plastic straw of something soft.

Like a chopstick?

Carlos

[Aaron Cox]

Look quit being a stuborn *&^%$

Index the engine to TDC #1 Cylinder DO NOT USE THE TIMING WARKS OF THE DAPO.
Pull the valve cover observe both valves closed for #1 and then observe the piston coming up to TDC through the spark plug hole. use a plastic straw of something soft.

Now see where the rotor is in relation to the cap and plug wire for #1.

Are you lined up for a spark to the right hole?

1 4 3 2 (firing order) # 1 cylinder is identified by the big huge number stamped on the tin.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

i'm not being stubborn.

i pulled the plugs on all but #1 and rotated the wheel with the tranny in 5th until i could feel the compression coming up.

it just so happens that th DAPO had a mark at the exact right place, i added my own marks for advance using the pelican template.

does the rotor in #1 face the forward right of the car? because that's how mine is. the plug wires are connected in 1432 order.

it's not for lack of trying i really did read up on this before i tried it

PULL the valve covers and watch the rockers.... find TDC by that way.

your pulley should have a ' 0 ' on it for TDC also.

[SGB]

Mybe the dizzy itself is not seated correctly? It is not hard to pull it out and reset just to be sure...

[Dr. Roger]

I like to have a friend turn her over while I twist the distributor back and forth until she starts.

[Jake Raby]

I use the same components together dozens of times per year, I have had ONE Mallory fail to start out of hundreds sold.

More than likely you either have a grounding problem or something is not connected properly, or the timing is off severely as mentioned above.

You must first verify spark before going further. Did these parts come from my Store? If so I will call you up and walk you through troubleshooting.

[purple]

I had my dad turn it over while i was twisting the dizzy back and forth, I had it at one point so advanced that i could see the 27* mark coming up at one point.

The dizzy is seated down there very well.

my pulley has a whiteout mark there for TDC, but at this point i dont trust the engine markings anymore.

The mark on the flywheel doesnt correspond to any cylinder's TDC

i have +12v going to one side of the ballast resistor, the yellow + to the promaster coming off the other side.

I have the green from the dizzy connected to the black of the promaster.

I have the brown grounded to the fan shroud where the coil used to mount.

I get ~12v from the +12v to the fan shroud ground so it's a good ground. everything is securely mounted on grommets on the firewall.

The ballast resistor lets something like +4v through to the coil, is this right?

I get the timing light to work with this setup while the engine is turning over.

I did buy this from your store Jake, the only thing I havent done is pull the valve covers to verify #1 tdc because I'm wary of this engine leaking like a stuck pig if i do that, since nothing ever works right with this old thing.

[Joe Ricard]

I think you need like 9 VDC to make the coil fire. Bad ground try connecting directly to the case. Or the ballast resistor is too big.

The rotor pointing forward and to the right of the car means you are 180 degrees out. (IT IS IN BACKWARDS)

This explains why when you keep twisting the distributor way past 27 that iti "almost" fires.

[purple]

I tried playing musical plugs moving the plug wires around by one in a clockwise fashion.

from the front right of the dizzy i started with

1432
then
4321
then
3214
then
2143
then
1432

all i got from the other ones was really wierd noises that sounded like dropping a grapefruit in a toilet, or backfires

i dont remember the EXACT voltage coming off the ballast, but it looks like enough to trigger spark, because the timing light is picking up SOMETHING and blinking while i'm cranking the engine.

when you align the distributor, do you align the arrow on the disc with the mark on the dizzy case, or do you align the rotor with the mark on the dizzy case? if I align the mark on the dizzy case, with the arrow, it puts the rotor facing the front right of the car. i put plug wire # 1 here, with # 4 clockwise from that, #3 clockwise from that, #2 clockwise from that.

I should think it doesnt matter what direction the rotor is facing, as long as the order of the plug wires remains the same, as it loops through them in the same order every time. as long as i start the loop on #1, right? I'm a programmer, i'm trying to think of this in programmer terms, and a looping execution is exactly what this reminds me of.

[purple]

btw...I didnt connect the tach to the system, it's a blue wire that connected to the negative side of the coil. I noticed that from this wire to ground, i get 3-4 volts...is that right?

I dont want to connect a source to the green wire on the mallory(which is connected to the black - wire on the coil) and risk putting voltage into the unilite module through the backside.

Since voltage is a measure of potential, if i connect this to the negative side of the coil which is getting something like 4-6 volts off the back side of the ballast, this equates to 0 volts going to the coil, since the difference between the hot side +5 volts to the ground side +4 volts would pretty much negate out.

WTF did I get myself into? I'm beginning to hate this glorified lawnmower engine

what makes it worse is I just bought a MINI cooper with a stickshift

makes the 914 look like a rickshaw

[Joe Ricard]

Did you get a set of wiring diagrams with the Mallory? seems you are not hooking it up right.

Going by memory That don't seem right.
However I am running a CD box. There is a diagram in the instructions to do exactly what you are doing.

NOW PLEASE STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
You have successfully really dug a hole for yourself.
best to start over.

You absolutely are 180 out . it is totally possible to stick the ROTOR in backwards. I think you did this. Yea theoretically you can just move the plug wires.

Also it is possible that you have now dumped so much gas into the cylinders that the plugs are hopelessly fouled.

Just pull the plugs replace em, re-set the engine to TDC for #1 then re-install the distributor. You know #1 is not the front one on driver side right?

[rhodyguy]

a blue wire huh? there are 3 wires coming out of the mallory. as you say you are using a ballast resistor let's refer to fig 1 in the installation instructions. a green, a red, and a brown come out of the dist.

the brown is the ground. you can attach it under one of the engine tin screws.

the red goes to the positive side of the coil with the balast resistor inline prior to the coil.

the green goes to the neg side of the coil.

other ?. did you dimple the engine tin so the distr body does not make contact? if not, the drive on the distr may (prob) will not fully seat into distr drive in the case. the rotor may or may not turn, and/or 'skip' time.

also, what type of sparkplug wires are you using?

i ruined an optical pickup and chased issues for days. i'll see if i can find the thread.



k

[Jake Raby]

Email me your phone number and i will call you
productdevelopment@aircooledtechnology.com

Like I said, verifying spark is the first step, without spark timing doesn't matter.

[purple]

the BLUE wire comes from the car, not the distributor.

I have the green from the unilite hooked to the black wire on the negative side of the coil

I have the red unilite wire hooked to +12v prior to the ballast

I have the brown unilite wire hooked under engine tin

I have the yellow coil + wire hooked to the other side of the ballast resistor.

Joe, the ROTOR is pointing to the front right of the car. I have the # 1 cylinder (back left) hooked to this point on the distributor cap.

If you look at the pelican site for setting timing, that's EXACTLY where my rotor is pointing.

my distributor cap looks like this


-2-----1

3-----4

as it sits in the car

I banged the hell out of the engine tin so the snaps on the cap clear it so i can rotate it.

the wires are 7mm bosch silicone

I have new plugs coming from NGK

I have a growing hatred for this old tub

[ChrisFoley]

Easy way to verify spark - pull a plug wire and hold it close to a ground source, then crank the engine.
You are right that the distributor can be mounted in the case in nearly any position. As long as the #1 wire connects to the terminal that the rotor points to when the crank is at #1TDC (on compression stroke) it will work.