small 6 vs. big 4, help with the basics... Options

[Dave_Darling]

Going the Four route will be quite a bit simpler. No need to figure out an engine mounting scheme, no need to worry about an oil tank or specialized lines, and so on and so on. More or less, just bolt it up and go! If you go with carbs, you'll need to work out those issues, but there would likely be similar issues with any fuel system that would feed a Six anyway.

The six is, well, it's a Six! The sound is amazing, the engines are capable of making good power under absurd conditions (being beat upon mercilessly 24 hours a day, running at WOT near redline for 24 hours without any real breaks!) and there are hundreds of companies out there that have a pretty good idea how to deal with them and make them go fast. It will likely be more expensive, even with a "small" Six, and there are more issues you will have to deal with. Plus it's about the only way you can really get 300 HP with a nice torque curve lasting 200K miles or so. But that takes even MO money...

--DD

[rjames]

What I plan on doing is taking a 50,000 mile good running core stock 2.0 and doing a mega update on it going through the stock upgrades and testing for power and temperature differences in the lab, then break it down and pretend that I am an enthusiast tasked with the same challenge that you had.
I'll then put it all back together with the modified combo as a 2056 and re-test it the same way.

Then I'll sell it to someone that is willing to take it off my hands and drop it into their car.

I'm sure there will be no shortage of people willing to volounteer for this one!

Jake, one day I'm hoping to have one of your engines in my car, it's just a matter of time and $ to do it properly.
Seems like things have changed quite a bit from when you first broke the news of your 5k turnkey engine combo. I remember sales being a little slow at first from the 914 crowd, but it looks like that's changed for the better. I for one am glad to see it because it means you'll keep offering the engine combos and improving upon them. They'll be that much better when I am finally in a position to take advantage of your research. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[LarryR]

I know that was kind of all over the place with this but I am pretty sure you see where I am going with it. I think 5K could build you a wicked type IV

and if I didnt want it to be so "wicked" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ... what can it cost to build a 110-ish hp motor? -JON

I have not really investigated the less radical route. My intention is to build a purpose built race engine. I have been debating back and forth with a friend of mine that is a 17 year veteran 356 racer on what route to go. He is pumping out an almost unbelievable 172 hp out of his 1.7 liter 356 engine.

I think the plans for my engine are probably not relevant to what you are looking for after rereading this post. I will be running close to 13:1 compression, a very lumpy cam and a set of either raby heads or possibly stock heads taken to a local tuner by the name of stemson. I guess he builds all of the heads for Jerry Woods and has done the race heads for Andial but I am thinking they will fall into the OH SH*T price range so the raby heads are probably for me.

110 - 120 hp should be easy to reach in the 2-3K price range.

[Jake Raby]

The Stinson heads are probably cheaper than ours and based on back to back comparisons are less effective both on the flow bench and the dyno.

As for 356 power, well I have build a 167HP PUMP GAS 356 engine, making power with those engines is VERY SIMPLE compared to the Type 4 platform. As we speak I am building a twin plugged 1500cc engine for Land Speed racing based on the 356 platform- it'll make over 190 HP and spin 10,000 RPM. The 356 engine and the type 4 share NONE of the same characteristics except the firing order, the biggest mistake that can be made is manipulating the TIV with similar mind set to that of another engine- especially the 356 platform.

You more than likely don't need 13:1 to make the most effective power for your application and with camshafts bigger is NOT better, especially if you experience port stall due to the cam choice. With the TIV bigger is usually LESS EFFECTIVE, my development and back to back comparisons have proven this time and time again.

Heads, cam induction and exhaust are all dependant upon each other and you can't get an optimized engine by dealing with people who haven't developed the entire engine or do not offer an optimized combination proven to work. It takes more than just a pair of heads, more than just some compression and more than a huge cam to make usable, efficient power.

It's all in the combo.

[Inspector]

For educational purposes is there any photos of the differances between the 356 motor and the type 4.

[Jake Raby]

Nothing is the same between the two engines, they only share ONE part.

[cnavarro]

For educational purposes, if you want to see pics of the inside of my 1883cc 356/912 engine that Jake built for me, they are on my site:

http://lnengineering.com/raby912/