The Mystery of my engine, It's a VW type 2??!!! Options

[purple]

Hey guys, just spent some fruitless wrench work on the 914 downstairs in preparation for an engine drop and something gave me pause.

I have an engine code that starts with GD

it's a '76 that's had it's emissions and fuel injection stripped, but the engine is NOT stock and it's a rebuilt unit from VW canada.

It has 1.7L AMC heads (because of the intake bolt pattern and spark plug locations)

WTF ENGINE IS IN MY CAR????

http://www.type2.com/bartnik/enginecodes.htm

according to that i have a type 2 ????!?!?!!?!?

it has hydraulic lifters and appears a complete cobble-job.

What should I do?

I also found out my carb is a weber 32/36 DFAV meaning it's a progressive with a WATER choke?!

WTF crack was smoked here?
some engine experts help me with this overheating pig of an engine please! what is this thing? anyone know of VW canada's products?

Something depressing just hit me...this is a bus engine, and that engine code just confirmed it, along with the hydro lifters...
Should i waste any more time on this engine? i mean it runs decently, it's completely gutless and has no power at or near 5k rpm even with a mallory on it and headers.
What the hell should i do now?

[blitZ]

That sucks. I would just drive it as is and start collecting parts to install a proper engine.

[thomasotten]

A bus engine would have the dipstick forward by the fan, rather that up top.

[type47]

That sucks. I would just drive it as is and start collecting parts to install a proper engine.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[TheCabinetmaker]

I also agree. Drive it till it dies, and have nice 2056 ready to drop in when it does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[davep]

VW Canada had a remanufacturing facility in Toronto, Ontario. They produced top quality rebuilds for many years, so the base engine you got was probably sound. However, it is a bus engine, so it has low compression, small valves, etc. The heads can be reworked by Len Hoffman to support a 200HP engine. Your carbs are a joke, you need to get something useful there. Bore the cylinders to 96mm and put in some decent pistons. Get a good cam. Talk to Jake about a kit, or to McMark about his rebuilds.

[Jake Raby]

I have seen the VWOC rebuilds in al states of oddity.. Most have over sized oil pressure relief pistons, odd things done to the oil system, altered running clearances and overbored cyloinders with odd bore sizes..

It **MAY** be a good base for an engine kit, but we'd have to determine that after an inspection on this end..

Tear it all the way down and see what you have, use my video as a guide and start the project off right.

[purple]

Hey Jake, I was really REALLY considering getting a kit from you for a 2056 and building it out of the car while I drive this pig into the ground and sending the old one to you for an...autopsy just to figure out exactly WTF engine this is. Is that doable?


On the side of carbs... the ones you have on your site Jake, have you gone over those or am I in for a rebuild when I get them?

[Cap'n Krusty]

AMC doesn't make 1.7 heads, AFIK.

I've seen VW Canada reman engines fail. In one case in as little as 20 miles.

[Jake Raby]

AMC does make 1.7 heads. I have them on my shelf :-)

All the carbs listed on my site are new, set up for your engine. If you buy the engine kit we can set them up near perfectly for you at the same time.

Engine kit policies and prices change 12/1/07 for the 2008 models, so you might need to make up your mind soon :-)

[Cap'n Krusty]

AMC does make 1.7 heads. I have them on my shelf :-)

All the carbs listed on my site are new, set up for your engine. If you buy the engine kit we can set them up near perfectly for you at the same time.

Engine kit policies and prices change 12/1/07 for the 2008 models, so you might need to make up your mind soon :-)

I defer to your stock on hand. I've never seen one, and they're not available through any of the 4 European parts WDs I deal with. I don't think they ever have been.

The Cap'n

[purple]

krusty, I have 3 pictures that say otherwise (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What kind of policy changes are you talking about jake?
and what does an oversize oil relief piston mean? what does that do?

I just ordered your engine rebuilding DVD (you prolly can see that) and I'm craving info on the engine kits.

Would I have to do these cryptic things like determine my CC's of the combustion chamber and measure rocker geometry and cut valves and this bizness?

If I can be given some prepped parts and good instructions I can make damn near anything. It's just when I have to custom this or grind that, that i start to get pissy someone sells something called 'kit' that can't just be bolted together.

In other words, I'm not an engine designer, does this fact affect the outcome of the kit I put together? I dont know what quench is, I dont know what the numbers on your cams mean, etc. I'd like to build the engine like it's a black box. gas & air go in, power comes out.

I'm sure I sound very ignorant at this point, and I don't deny that I AM...about engine design. I know high performance computing and I'm good with my hands. I've played with legos since i was 2, and did RC cars since i was 8. Full size engines are somewhat of a mystery to me. I know what this and that does, but apart from being able to put engines together, knowing the different phases and houses of jupiter and rain wizards contained in the cylinders is not something I know. I'm willing to learn (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm an ass for posting this

[G e o r g e]

measure rocker geometry

you will have to do this and deck height , end play and a couple of other things yourself.

if the kit was as complete as you want it, jake would have to build the engine completely, then break it down and ship you the parts

that would run you slightly more than his balance and prep work cost (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

I'm an ass for posting this

You said it not me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[purple]

These xls spreadsheets say a lot to me.

I'll have to find:
a block
heads
the PARTS cost almost 4.5k?
that's amazing

[Jake Raby]

krusty, I have 3 pictures that say otherwise

I have to order them special...

What kind of policy changes are you talking about jake?

It's been two years since we totally revamped the program and methods that dictate the engine kit program. We are doing more services, more of the engine sub assembly and offering kits with 3 stages of prep work.
This is all an evolution that has been created from the sales of our kit sales experiences and the issues that have been encountered by kit assemblers.

Also, I will be enforcing the "Do it yourself" policy on kit sales, meaning we will not supply kits to be built by anyone other than Markd, or DTM Engineering. Shops have cost us issues for the final time with their bad habits and total lack of conformity to the rules of engine kit engagement-

and what does an oversize oil relief piston mean? what does that do?

The oil pressure relief bore is a wear area of the engine case, VWOC oversizes this and uses a larger diameter piston- there are no worries if you retain this piston for use in the same case.

I just ordered your engine rebuilding DVD (you prolly can see that) and I'm craving info on the engine kits.

All the info is available on line, and on my forums or you can schedule a Wednesday evening chat with me to go over the details by emailing enginekits@aircooledtechnology.com

Would I have to do these cryptic things like determine my CC's of the combustion chamber

No, measurement is not needed, we retain this info when the parts are shipped to assist with the support you'll need during CR calculation. Yes you'll need to calculate CR as thats part of being an engine builder and thats the role YOU assume with the purchase of a kit- I will NOT take that away from this process, becuase when its all said and done I want you to work for the pride that comes with the completion of the project just like I do. That said, we stand by your side through the entire process, an email or post away with a limited amount of phone support as well.

and measure rocker geometry

Yes, this is also part of filling my shoes, yet again we stand beside you and offer the support toools that assist with this as well.

and cut valves and this bizness?

None of that needed, the heads are brand new, and feature our pedigree. The Heads are 100% complete, just bo0lt them on.

If I can be given some prepped parts and good instructions I can make damn near anything.

Thats right, most people can. To date this has been done successfully by a 15 year old high school kid, and an 81 year old retired Doctor- both were successful because they adhered to my recommendations

lIt's just when I have to custom this or grind that, that i start to get pissy someone sells something called 'kit' that can't just be bolted together.

This really isn't a kt- it is an unassembled engine.

Yes, part of filling my shoes is working through the processes of CR, valvetrain geometry and tuning. I offer the kits to those who can do this work themselves and have the patience to do so. Typically the kit purchaser wants a fully engineered combination that is ready to go together and knows the process won't be simple, even with our support. For those I offer the same engines, just fully updated and pedigreed that can arrive on the doorstep ready to install, they cost more than double what the kits cost and take 8-10 months to create.

In other words, I'm not an engine designer, does this fact affect the outcome of the kit I put together?

I am an engine designer. I have taken the time to break down my most successful combos into a component recipe that can be assembled by the normal person, with normal tools and a normal mechanical aptitude. Without this kit you can't get the same results and thats due to the development that has went into the kit when it was offered in my engine shop. We KNOW what it requires for exhaust, what it tunes easiest with, what jets to run, what timing to use and I have the data to look up if there is ever a question. This is not a box of parts, it is a complete unassembled long block that are compatible, fully balanced and fully indexed for assembly.

I dont know what quench is, I dont know what the numbers on your cams mean, etc.

You don't have to and I don't want you to- because that could cloud your assembly procedures and create issues!

I'd like to build the engine like it's a black box. gas & air go in, power comes out.

OK, but its a little more detailed than that and I refuse to make it THAT simple for you because engines require effort to assemble. My turn key engines are not cheap for a reason and I want you to understand exactly whay that is when you turn the key and hear it fire for the first time.

I'm sure I sound very ignorant at this point, and I don't deny that I AM...about engine design.

Good, then my kit program is for you as long as you have patience. My best kit assemblers have been guys that have never touched a wrench before.

I know high performance computing and I'm good with my hands. I've played with legos since i was 2, and did RC cars since i was 8.

Good to know, but the engine is a tad different than a box of legos.

Full size engines are somewhat of a mystery to me.

They won't be once this kit is completed.

I know what this and that does, but apart from being able to put engines together, knowing the different phases and houses of jupiter and rain wizards contained in the cylinders is not something I know.

Intake
Compression
Power
Exhaust are the sequences that all 4 stroke engines share. If you have these and mechanical integrity, just apply fuel and spark at the right ratios and timing and you'll have an engine.

I'm willing to learn

And we are wiling to offer you the challenge.

I'm an ass for posting this

Nope.

All that said, there is no other engine kit on the market for these engines and the reason for that is because creating them and supporting them is not easy...

Like I said, we have the combinations and we'll offer you the challenge- the results are up to you and there are ZERO guarantees. It's ALL you.

[Jake Raby]

These xls spreadsheets say a lot to me.

Thats why they are posted.

I'll have to find:
a block
heads

A core longblock basically. This can be ANY displacement from 1.7 to 2.0 and it can come from a 914, 912E, VW Bus, 411/412 VW.

the PARTS cost almost 4.5k?

Damn right and if you ATTEMPT to rival the build without the kit you'll spend just as much and get 1/2 the results. Ask around, people have done it. FYI_ The BRAND NEW LE series cylinder heads that come with the kits

And you get the combo- that combo can't be bought- it is priceless. The development it took to create the combinations cost thousands of dollars and hundreds of MY hours of time to create. I don't give 150% for free- you pay for my enthusiasm and capabilities.

that's amazing

Yes, it is amazing that anyone would put the time into developing a program as comprehensive as this for an engine that hasn't been produced in 30 years, for a vehicle that isn't made any longer.

[purple]

word! So now i've gotta come up with ohh.. 5k? roughly?

by the policy enforcement, i misunderstand, does that mean that anyone other that you or mcmark arent going to be allowed? So if I want to build it, i'm forbidden? I'm not about to take all your goodies to some shop monkeys.

[Jake Raby]

We do not build kit engines. Our turn keys are completely new further updated versions of similar engines.

DTM engineering is not a subsidiary of my company, they are a separate shop located in Atlanta. Other than mcmark they are the only "shop" authorized to assemble our kits.

The program is made for YOU to assemble... Not your mechanic, who will more than likely fuck it up when his bad habits are applied...

[johannes]

Did I misunderstood ? I thought the heads were included in the kit ! ...

[Jake Raby]

Yes, heads are always part of a kit. Without the specifically prepped heads we could not offer a completely engineered, ready to assemble arrangement.

Btw_ the only heads that have an altered plug location or diFferent intake stud count are the 2.0 914 heads. All other heads are the same in these areas. An examination of the chambers will explain what the heads really are.