Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> 914 Fuel Injector Substitutes?, Choices...
Jeff Bowlsby
post Dec 11 2007, 10:00 AM
Post #1


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,499
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



I recently set out to identify possible substitute fuel injectors for stock 914s. With the interest in replacement PEFI, I thought it was important to identify any options for this important part. I have not obtained or physically tested any of the injectors below, the information is based only on published data from the internet and hard copy sources available to me.

The easiest solution is to identify identically performing fuel injectors that can be direct substitutes for the original part numbers. Direct substitutes are convenient because they can be installed into new PEFI installations or existing FI systems if original parts cannot be obtained. Criteria here include that the substitute be compatible physically for mounting purposes and identical in function/performance to the original injector. I was hoping to find new alternate injectors for <$50 each that were plentiful, but I could not find anything available.

As it turns I found information that the original Bosch pintle-style injectors are a very robust design and are the only physically similar injectors, allowing stock 914 mounting hardware and fuel/electrical connections, which for this option is important. No manufacturer makes anything similar or easily adaptable. Several different Bosch injectors are excellent matches for original 914 injector part numbers, why Bosch offers several seemingly identical injectors with different PNs I am not certain, but there are hints that the injector bodies are very similar if not identical, it’s only the attached hose that is different – short/long, straight or angled. Hoses are easily changed. A side by side comparison and testing would be important to distinguish actual differences. Don’t think that 914 injector flows are hugenormous, The original PN injectors are nicely sized and capable of supplying sufficient fuel for 914 engines with only short duty cycles, which contributes to their durability and long service life. Bosch makes several injectors with comparatively enormous flow rates much greater than 914 injectors.

Substitute identical injectors I found were all about the same price, and mostly made for Volvos and Mercedes Benz’ of the same vintage as the 914 using D-Jet fuel injection, which raises a concern. Not only are these substitute injectors no less expensive than the 914 part number, it would seem likely that at sometime in the future when Bosch decides to no longer support 914 injectors they might also drop all injectors of this design and era, so at that time, this straight substitution will not be an option. Who knows when or if that might be?

The chart below shows several possible substitute Bosch part numbers that seem to be sufficiently identical to the original 914 injectors. I found at least one source for each of them, with only a brief search.


A second solution uses physically identical injectors, but part numbers with different functional characteristics, compensating with PEFI tuning to make them work. I don’t think this is the easiest solution, but it could certainly work well. They should easily mount right up, but one problem is that these Bosch pintle-style injectors that may go obsolete. Another issue is that tuning a PEFI with these parts requires a commitment to those specific parts, or retuning using different parts in the future may be required.

Great news though…check out the injectors that are bolt-ins for the 1.8L 914, especially part number 0 280 150 114 for many VWs. I found this PN available from several sources for as little $65 new. They require electrical connector swaps (easy), but there are so many cars that use them, including newer cars than the 914 that they should be plentiful for many years to come. These injectors will require longer duty cycles, but nothing extreme.


A third option which I see as the last resort or only for very special needs is to use other suitable injectors of any physical design and functional characteristics. This is the most difficult option, promising at this point in time, little if any benefit to most owners. Newer style injectors could be selected and a PEFI could be tuned to work. Fabrication work would be necessary to configure a fuel rail and other mounting and electrical requirements, which for many is not possible or expensive in terms of time and/or cost. I perceive this to be the most expensive option in time and cost, for undetermined benefit.

Thought I would pass what information I found for reference…use it at your own risk.

Do you know of any other options?


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
McMark
post Dec 11 2007, 10:15 AM
Post #2


It's turbo-licious.
***************

Group: Admin
Posts: 20,029
Joined: 13-March 03
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Member No.: 419
Region Association: North East States



Wow, Jeff, that's really cool. Very interesting stuff. I can think of a few ways to make a bolt on fuel rail that doesn't require fabrication skills. If that opens up more doors, maybe we should look into that option.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
rick 918-S
post Dec 11 2007, 10:36 AM
Post #3


Hey nice rack! -Celette
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 18,626
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Duluth MN.
Member No.: 43
Region Association: Northstar Region




Nice work Jeff. I used a couple of injectors from a 1984 BMW 533I in my 1.7 once in a pinch. I don't know if it caused any real problems.. it ran...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
p914
post Dec 11 2007, 11:18 AM
Post #4


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 518
Joined: 7-September 03
From: Sunny South Florida
Member No.: 1,117
Region Association: None



Hey Jeff
Great info. Here's another chart of Injector part#s and stats.Attached File  fuel_injector_part_numbers.xls ( 172.5k ) Number of downloads: 2251
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jimkelly
post Dec 11 2007, 11:34 AM
Post #5


Delaware USA
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,902
Joined: 5-August 04
From: Delaware, USA
Member No.: 2,460
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region



this looks promising

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=77265&hl=

450sel pn seems to be 57512

at www.partsamerica.com

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail....677&PTSet=A
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
toon1
post Dec 11 2007, 11:43 AM
Post #6


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,839
Joined: 29-October 05
From: tracy,ca
Member No.: 5,022



Is your plan to go to a PEFI?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jake Raby
post Dec 11 2007, 04:40 PM
Post #7


Engine Surgeon
*****

Group: Member
Posts: 9,253
Joined: 31-August 03
From: Lost
Member No.: 1,095
Region Association: South East States



Great info..
We'll be offering (stock) intake manifolds fitted with newer model Bosch injectors with a special weld in bung in 08..

Of course the stock FI guys can't use these due to the impedence differences but it makes plenum based EFI much easier.

I'll be testing them on the dyno Thursday and Friday of this week on a RAT/SDS retrofit equipped 2056..

With these there are hundreds of injectors that will drop right in with no issue at all..
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
rick 918-S
post Dec 11 2007, 08:55 PM
Post #8


Hey nice rack! -Celette
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 18,626
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Duluth MN.
Member No.: 43
Region Association: Northstar Region




Jake, Are your intakes larger inside as well? Otherwise maybe an adaptor could be fashioned to fit the stock bung,... just thinking out loud. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jake Raby
post Dec 11 2007, 10:01 PM
Post #9


Engine Surgeon
*****

Group: Member
Posts: 9,253
Joined: 31-August 03
From: Lost
Member No.: 1,095
Region Association: South East States



No, these are stock runners with the bung modification made to them...

The stock 2.0 runners support my 155HP common plenum 2270-155 combo very well.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
toon1
post Dec 11 2007, 10:10 PM
Post #10


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,839
Joined: 29-October 05
From: tracy,ca
Member No.: 5,022



ALso , some newer style inj's have an O ring on the tip side that slips into a bore rather that a sandwich fit like the stock 914
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Root_Werks
post Nov 24 2008, 08:48 AM
Post #11


When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,467
Joined: 25-May 04
From: Lake Stevens
Member No.: 2,105
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



I searched and found this thread with really great info on it. I have one injector on my 914 that isn't doing anything and am 99% sure it's dead. Anyone ever try the Benze Fuel Injector as a sub? Looks like a match to me.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Spoke
post Nov 24 2008, 10:08 AM
Post #12


Jerry
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,619
Joined: 29-October 04
From: Allentown, PA
Member No.: 3,031



Anyone familiar with these injectors on Ebay? They're remanufactured 4 for $120 shipped.

Ebay Injectors
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mark Henry
post Nov 24 2008, 12:44 PM
Post #13


that's what I do!
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 16,854
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Port Hope, Ontario
Member No.: 26
Region Association: Canada



QUOTE(Spoke @ Nov 24 2008, 11:08 AM) *

Anyone familiar with these injectors on Ebay? They're remanufactured 4 for $120 shipped.

Ebay Injectors


1.8 Ljet injectors, not that hard to find and they flow less than 1.7 injectors...it's the 2.0 injectors that are hard to get.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Root_Werks
post Nov 24 2008, 03:31 PM
Post #14


When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,467
Joined: 25-May 04
From: Lake Stevens
Member No.: 2,105
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



QUOTE(jimkelly @ Dec 11 2007, 09:34 AM) *


I ordered just one injector for now. $50, Not bad at all. All the same specs. I report back if and how it works. If it does well, I might get 3 more to match the set? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Drums66
post Nov 24 2008, 04:35 PM
Post #15


914 Rudiments
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,247
Joined: 15-January 03
From: Coronado,Cali
Member No.: 151
Region Association: Southwest Region



QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Nov 24 2008, 10:44 AM) *

QUOTE(Spoke @ Nov 24 2008, 11:08 AM) *

Anyone familiar with these injectors on Ebay? They're remanufactured 4 for $120 shipped.

Ebay Injectors


1.8 Ljet injectors, not that hard to find and they flow less than 1.7 injectors...it's the 2.0 injectors that are hard to get.


aren't Those 912-E injectors......Ljet on 2.0?....working off my bad memory again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Root_Werks
post Dec 2 2008, 08:51 PM
Post #16


When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,467
Joined: 25-May 04
From: Lake Stevens
Member No.: 2,105
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



Sooooo, I got my injector today.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Root_Werks
post Dec 2 2008, 08:52 PM
Post #17


When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,467
Joined: 25-May 04
From: Lake Stevens
Member No.: 2,105
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



I don't think the injector would be made in Germany?


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Root_Werks
post Dec 2 2008, 08:53 PM
Post #18


When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,467
Joined: 25-May 04
From: Lake Stevens
Member No.: 2,105
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



Check out the tip!


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Root_Werks
post Dec 2 2008, 08:56 PM
Post #19


When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,467
Joined: 25-May 04
From: Lake Stevens
Member No.: 2,105
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



Other than the tip being a little different and slightly shorter, they are the same. 914 seems to run just fine now. Do I dare get 3 more?


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jeff Bowlsby
post Dec 2 2008, 09:51 PM
Post #20


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,499
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



Kuhl Dan....Are these the equivalent to the 0280 150 036 injectors? The specs match 2.0L injectors and its nice to know there is an alternative. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)


I wonder what the significance of the tritip is? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th July 2018 - 06:46 AM