Want headlight not to raise on early 914 Options

[chriss914]

Hi! I have a 1970 914 where i´m planning to put driving/foglights in the grills and the early 914 raise the headlamp when you pull the light switch to the first step, and what i´ve understand the later doesn´t.

So does anybody know how to fix so the pop-up´s raise just when you pull the switch to the second step (fully engaged). In this way so I can drive with just the additional lights on and no frog eyes.

As I said I also planning to put the extras in the front light grills and this car have newer had that, nor their is any pre-wiring for that on the early models. So I would appreciate if there should be som wiring suggestions on that as well.

I suppose there would be som faq on these issues but I haven´t found it.

Thanks!

Chriss

BTW. You can´t beat the fealing and sound of a 914 with a six in the middle!

[markb]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=8841

Post #37

[Spoke]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Not sure about the headlight pop-up on the first click of the headlight switch. On my 71 I believe just the parking lights come on with the first click. The second click opens the headlights and turns them on regardless of the ignition key position.

The headlight motor has 2 control leads, one to open and one to close. It would seem that you could move the one to open from the parking light position to the headlights-on position. This would take place on the headlight switch on the dashboard.

To get to the headlight switch, one must move the fuse panel and unscrew the headlight pull-button and fastener, then it will come out for inspection. Before you do this, disconnect the NEG terminal of the battery to avoid sparks and smoke and all that stuff.

On my 74, the headlights pop up and turn on only if the key is in the ON position.

For the fog lights, my schematic for 70-72 cars shows the fogs operated by the same type of relay that the headlights use. The fogs are shown using fuse #10 and are the only load on this fuse.

If you don't have a schematic and/or repair manual, get one, you'll need it.

Spoke

[effutuo101]

If it helps, later cars had a fog light switch.

[Cap'n Krusty]

They all had fog light switches, assuming they had fog lights. Unless you're gonna use the fog lights as signaling devices (and there's a kit for that), using the fog lights without the low beams is stupid. Read up a bit on fog lights, colored lights, and other lighting issues. As always, Google is your friend. BTW, there's no such thing as driving/fog lights. They're either one or the other, but NEVER both. Fog lights are best mounted in or below the bumper (and have a VERY defined pattern), driving lights best as high as is feasible.

Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting

And this, the best lighting page I've come across!:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/li.../fog_lamps.html

The Cap'n

[SirAndy]

They all had fog light switches, assuming they had fog lights. Unless you're gonna use the fog lights as signaling devices (and there's a kit for that), using the fog lights without the low beams is stupid. Read up a bit on fog lights, colored lights, and other lighting issues. As always, Google is your friend. BTW, there's no such thing as driving/fog lights. They're either one or the other, but NEVER both. Fog lights are best mounted in or below the bumper (and have a VERY defined pattern), driving lights best as high as is feasible.

Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting

And this, the best lighting page I've come across!:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/li.../fog_lamps.html

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) The Cap'n is right, as usual ...

[chriss914]

Hey and thanks for all of your fast replies to my question.

I do think the thread was coming a little bit off the question, so to start with I would like to say that I´m a so called "Kamikaze" pilot. At the evening when it get darks enough I get out, jump in my car and: Hey I don´t want to spoil the lines on my seventies roadster! so no headlamps up! I put on the fog lamps... out on the highway and push my little nasty 6 cylinder car to the limit!!!

No really, thanks for the advice, but I don´t need any lesson in the difference between Fog and driving lights. But It´s my fault. I was not clear enough or It was just an miss-understanding because I´m not that good in English.

What I meant was that I need the technical advice to put some kind of auxiliary light (fog or driving, whatever) in the horn grills. The reason is not for night driving or fog driving. Just to have some light on sunny days instead of raising the headlamps. It´s for day light driving. Here in Sweden we have a law about always have the light on. So now you get it!

My car is an early 1970 Delivered in februar -70 somewhere in USA. Then it came back to Europe around 1980. And this is how the light works on it today:

Light Switch in: No Light!
Halfway out: Parking light, front and rear and sidemarker lights on. And actuating the headlamp motors so they pop up.
Fully out: The headlamps also lights up!
And this is regardless of how the ignition key is operated.

What I want: I want the lights mentioned above at halfway out to come on but not the motors to actuate.
And Fully out: motor actuate and headlamp on!

What I understand it has something to do with the three gray cables on the light switch that should be dealed with.

They all had foglight switches? Not mine anyway, it has newer had foglights and I don´t see any marks from a switch at the dash panel.

If someone have some wiring purpose for fog or driving lamps on a 914 there´s newer been any, I would appreciate as well.

So thanks for your fast replies so far, and hope to have some more help out of this questions.

Chriss914

[So.Cal.914]

You could get a stock foglight switch and run it through a relay powered from a

fused/switched power source. Then power your fogs from there. That way they

will shut off with the key even if the switch is left on. Just a thought. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The hole for the FL switch is in the dash on the left side of the stearing wheel.

You can feel it through the material that covers the dash. Switch is available.

[Chris Pincetich]

Check JWest Engineering for a very good upgrade kit to allow fog lights to be on ALL the time regardless of headlights. This plus the Pilot light upgrade from CAMP914 is a great combo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[type47]

out on the highway and push my little nasty 6 cylinder car to the limit!!!

-6 cylinder???????

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Spoke]

Halfway out: Parking light, front and rear and sidemarker lights on. And actuating the headlamp motors so they pop up.

You have 2 issues at hand: 1) stop the headlights from popping up with the parking lights; 2) Wire a set of fog lamps.

For the headlight pop-up, unless there were some changes at the factory, both of my 914's, a 71 and 74 only turn on the parking lights when the switch is halfway out. Does anyone else's headlights pop up when the switch is halfway out???

Headlights stay down until switch is fully out. They close when switch is fully back in. So if I pull switch fully out, lights pop up and come on. Then if I put switch halfway, headlights turn off but lights stay up.

So to keep the headlights from popping up when the switch is halfway out, you will have to remove the switch, find the pop-up wire, and move it to the fully out position. Sounds easy but the hard part will be finding the right wire and the right place to put the wire.

Remember to always disconnect the NEG terminal of the battery when moving these switches. If you want to test with the switches out, just make sure nothing is touching chassis or other components and careful if you move things with the battery connect. Disconnect the battery before re-installing.

Spoke

[chriss914]

You could get a stock foglight switch and run it through a relay powered from a

fused/switched power source. Then power your fogs from there. That way they

will shut off with the key even if the switch is left on. Just a thought. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The hole for the FL switch is in the dash on the right side of the stearing wheel.

You can feel it through the material that covers the dash. Switch is available.

Thanks! if I want the stock fog light switch where is it availiable? or can I found something from the vw buses which i think had switches looking like those.

And yes it´s converted to a six 2,2 911.

I have checked up the others you guys mentioned, but the BIG (and not that easy) question remains.. How to rewire so no headlights comes up in the first step. There must be someone with an early car that done it before.

[chriss914]

Halfway out: Parking light, front and rear and sidemarker lights on. And actuating the headlamp motors so they pop up.

You have 2 issues at hand: 1) stop the headlights from popping up with the parking lights; 2) Wire a set of fog lamps.

For the headlight pop-up, unless there were some changes at the factory, both of my 914's, a 71 and 74 only turn on the parking lights when the switch is halfway out. Does anyone else's headlights pop up when the switch is halfway out???

Headlights stay down until switch is fully out. They close when switch is fully back in. So if I pull switch fully out, lights pop up and come on. Then if I put switch halfway, headlights turn off but lights stay up.

So to keep the headlights from popping up when the switch is halfway out, you will have to remove the switch, find the pop-up wire, and move it to the fully out position. Sounds easy but the hard part will be finding the right wire and the right place to put the wire.

Remember to always disconnect the NEG terminal of the battery when moving these switches. If you want to test with the switches out, just make sure nothing is touching chassis or other components and careful if you move things with the battery connect. Disconnect the battery before re-installing.

Spoke

Yes I thought that my car was wired someway by some pre owner but then i Read that the early ones pop up the lights at switch halfway out. "Late-model headlamp motor operation (e.g. lights down when HL switch is half-way out)" that I found here: http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/new_l...g_functions.htm
But the site is not complete. The instructions given stops before everything is explained.

[chriss914]

Yes I thought that my car was wired someway by some pre owner but then i Read that the early ones pop up the lights at switch halfway out. "Late-model headlamp motor operation (e.g. lights down when HL switch is half-way out)" that I found here: http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/new_l...g_functions.htm
But the site is not complete. The instructions given stops before everything is explained.

[TimK]

Hi Chriss914,

If I were you, I would see if I could modify some of the contacts inside the headlamp switch. There's a cutaway view in the Pelican Parts technical article at:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...lamp_switch.htm

If you look at the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual for the 1970-1971 914 (Figure 9.65, I think), you'll see that terminals 56 and 30b control the headlamp motors. Perhaps there's a short in your headlamp switch that is causing the headlamps to pop up early. If you take it apart (again, see Pelican Parts technical article above), you might be able to clean things out.

Good Luck!
Tim

[chriss914]

Hi!

I think it´s the same guy written both the pelican article as are in the link I put above, and he says that the early 914 had pop-up in the parking light step and that the light were added in fully engaged. The later cars were pop-up and headlights in fully engaged and thats of course how I want it.
I don´t dare take that apart since I don´t expect it to be faulty. You know the cost of a new light switch (about 450$)

BTW Very fast answers on this forum! Great!

[Cap'n Krusty]

If you want JUST the fog lights to activate, run a wire from the fog light switch to a fuse, instead of to the headlight switch. The purpose for the wire to run from the headlight switch to the fog light switch is to prevent use of the fog light in conjunction with the high beams. If you have functional fog lights, you should already have the switch. If you are adding the fog lights, then any old switch will work. The wiring is in all the cars. You could hide a simple toggle switch under the dash. The Cap'n

[TimK]

I don´t dare take that apart since I don´t expect it to be faulty. You know the cost of a new light switch (about 450$)

You're probably right that the switch is just fine. From the diagrams, it looks like the gray wire from post 56 on the light switch opens the front lights and the gray/black wire closes them. Perhaps on your switch, the gray wire opening the headlamps is tied to the "58L" or "58R" terminal which drives the parking lights. Maybe if you cut the gray wire off the parking light contact (58L or 58R) and spliced it into the headlamp contact (56), you'd get the behavior you want. I'm just guessing since I don't have your switch wiring in front of me. (It also may be tied into the "K" contact and should be moved to contact "56").

Good Luck!
Tim

[TimK]

Whoops, wrong color on the "closed" wire. I got "GR" on the diagram confused with the color grey, when GR actually means Green! The Grey wire opens thelight and the green/black wire closes them. So you still have to move a grey wire over to terminal 56 on the lightswitch.

The problem is there's a second grey wire (according to the diagram) coming out of terminal K that goes back into terminal 58B that goes to the fog lamp switch and the dash lights. Don't cut that one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Again, good luck,
Tim

From the diagrams, it looks like the gray wire from post 56 on the light switch opens the front lights and the gray/black wire closes them.

[rhodyguy]

maybe post a want to buy in the classifieds for a REAL fog/driving lamp switch? enabling the f/d lamps to operate "independantly of the other lights" is detailed in george hussey's '700 Tech Tips' available from Automobile Atlanta. tip #602.3.

k