This is really sobering. Options

[Lou W]

The sad part is the idiot took friends with him. This one I hang on the parents ... 4 citations and they still let him have the car.

Sad, but it repeats itself due to lack of due diligence by the parents.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[rhodyguy]

everyone who did'nt get involved in stupid stunts and dangerous behavior when they were 18 or so, please raise your hands now.

k

[scotty b]

Rick I remember your experience and I like and respect you so please do not take offense with what I am about to post.

I personally feel it is extereme negligence to let a kid anywhere near a "performance" car without adult supervision, and ceratinly am against letting anyone under 25-30 own one. I don't care how well raised you think your kid is, he/she WILL push it to and past the limits of both the car and the drivers ability. It is just human nature. On the other hand a kid who has grown up "restoring" his/her own car has a lot more fear of damaging that vehicle as they have put part of their life into it. That car has become part of them not just a fast ass car. I firmly belive an 18 y.o. who has stripped repaired and reassembled a 74 911 is a much more aware and safer driver then an 18 y.o. who was handed the keys toi an 89 Jetta. There seems to have been a trend since I got out of high school (1991) of parents buying their kids higher end newer cars. I know, I deal with the wrecks on a weekly basis. My first car was a choice between a Datsun 210 or a 72 Beetle. 90% of the kids at my school drove some sort of old Audi, VW, Toyota 4 door etc. and I went to one of the schools in a wealthier area. Parents just didn't give the kids what the kid wanted. The kid got mom or dads old POS beater. What changed?????

[rhodyguy]

1600 vw, datsun 510 wagon or chrysler newport custom with a 383 and four barrel (what i got to drive in high school and i discovered how fast each one would go) limits were still pushed. how fast would your beetle go scott?

k

[scotty b]

1600 vw, datsun 510 wagon or chrysler newport custom with a 383 and four barrel (what i got to drive in high school and i discovered how fast each one would go) limits were still pushed. how fast would your beetle go scott?

k

I tinkerd with it a good bit after school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) I had it chirpping in 2nd and would make a semi-regular country run at around 90-95 m.p.h. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) 1600 d.p. sold it with 210,000 and the guy called me a copuple weeks later to tell me how awesome it was and insisted I had done more to it than I had. I had a really good friend of my dads build the engine. Old school VW legend around here, then I dicked with it to squeek a wee bit more out of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[stepuptotheMike]

Rick I remember your experience and I like and respect you so please do not take offense with what I am about to post.

I personally feel it is extereme negligence to let a kid anywhere near a "performance" car without adult supervision, and ceratinly am against letting anyone under 25-30 own one. I don't care how well raised you think your kid is, he/she WILL push it to and past the limits of both the car and the drivers ability. It is just human nature. On the other hand a kid who has grown up "restoring" his/her own car has a lot more fear of damaging that vehicle as they have put part of their life into it. That car has become part of them not just a fast ass car. I firmly belive an 18 y.o. who has stripped repaired and reassembled a 74 911 is a much more aware and safer driver then an 18 y.o. who was handed the keys toi an 89 Jetta. There seems to have been a trend since I got out of high school (1991) of parents buying their kids higher end newer cars. I know, I deal with the wrecks on a weekly basis. My first car was a choice between a Datsun 210 or a 72 Beetle. 90% of the kids at my school drove some sort of old Audi, VW, Toyota 4 door etc. and I went to one of the schools in a wealthier area. Parents just didn't give the kids what the kid wanted. The kid got mom or dads old POS beater. What changed?????

Seems to me that fewer and fewer parents are actually training their kids to drive. Seems they are leaving it up to a seriously inadequate public school driver's ed program. Of course, this is because most parents don't know the basics of defensive driving.

To your question about why more people don't make the kids rebuild the car... well there are a number of factors there. Ranging all the way from parents that don't know the business end of a screw driver to folks with more money than brains. I also think that people are lured into buying newer cars due to the "safety features" that newer vehicles have. Granted they are some great devices, but they can't make up for what is sitting behind the wheel. The sad reality is that STUPID kills.

Mike

[SirAndy]

how fast would your beetle go

about 160 km/h with the 1600 cc 50 HP stock motor ...
over 200 km/h with the 2.0L T4 with stock D-Jet ...

and i tend to agree, i always thought of myself as a good driver, but i certainly was pushing my cars much harder when i was younger.

i did a lot of stupid stuff, and i would probably have killed myself back then if i had driven a 500+ HP car ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[carr914]

Is it a coincidence that so many Carrera GT are wrecked. You give any person TOO much power and something bad can happen. Quite frankly I'm close to ending Instructing in DEs. The newer Porsches (in this case, but it applies to Corvette ZR-1, BMW Ms, etc) have so much power and computer gismos to catch the car, that the drivers are gaining confidence without the skills. Dangerous combo. So age is no excuse or barrier.
T.C.

[Pat Garvey]

Kids are stupid (particularly males)!

I was 17 & my parents foolishly let me drive the "Family Truckster" (a 1960 4-door Dodge, with a 318 & pushbutton tanny) to school ONE day - ONE day!

That very weekend, I was to take delivery of a 55 Chevy, primed in black, but with a 283 & a 4-speed - for $125! It was 1964.

On the way from the school parking lot (with 6 other people inside) I ripped away & was going through the buttons (anyone remember those things). My soon to be mine Chevy was in front of me & he had 6 people inside. So, we're yukking it up, going through the "gears" & out walks "Bitsy" Nader ("Bitsy' rhymed & she could have fallen straight forward & never come close to hurting her face - nomasayin?). Well, the Chevy guys hit the brakes, made some catcalls & I'm looking at Bitsy - we hit REALLY hard. Don't know the speed, but I still have the image in my head - dust & dirt everywhere & the three people in the front seat of the 55 disappearing from sight (the seat mounts broke).

Needless to say, the Chevy was toast. My parents said, about the Dodge, "you broke it, fix it - it's yours now", along with all related expenses. I learned a hard lesson from that. I fixed that Dodge, drove it as a beer wagon for 6 months & traded in for a 65 Doge Dart with a V8 & 4-speed, that it learned to make into a very severe hotrod (wasted lots of bucks too).

I also befriended a Kentucky state trooper, who taught me how to drive & care for a VERY hot MoPar (his was a Street Hemi). Learned to drag race (off the streets) & how to rebuild things when I broke them. I learned respect (at 18) for the power & expense-to-maintain aspects of a high performance car. Also realized that I couldn't afford to keep feeding the roarty bastard!

Two years later I got my first VW, went into the Army, learned how to make a velocity stack for a Bug, tuned the timing & drag it (I reaaly could lift the front wheels off the ground on launch) until it crapped out when the throttle body iced over. Still, it was fun.

Point here is this. Kids will be dumb. Parents need to step in & create a sense of responsibility. Parents also need to be certain that the kids know how to drive - both from a safety & performance standpoint. Kids will test the limits, beacause they are indestructable. Show them that they aren't. Teach, or have them taught, how to drive from a performance standpoint. Yep, they'll still test thier limitations, but at least they'll have some proper training. Take them to an autocross a couple of time - then enter them. That'll wake them up.

I am so sorry for the parents who caused this tragedy (and, they did cause it). They will live with this sad event forever. They were wrong, stupid and inconsiderate - and a lot of people lost lives. These parents are responsible for EVERY lost life. I wouldn't want to be them.
Pat

[Lou W]

I have to agree that alot of us have done dumb things as teenagers, but, I have to think that the driver of that BMW wasn't just some kid who got in a little over his head with a high performance car. There had to be some serious psychological problems with him to do what he did and that car just ended up being his way to end his life and take a few friends with him. It is truly tragic.

[rick 918-S]

We all did stupid stuff when we were kids. The point of my story was to point out the fact that there is a way to be pro active in your kids learning curve. Just paying for your child to attend the drivers ed class through your local high school is not enough. I think all kids should have to take defensive driving classes every 6 months until their 18.

I assisted with the BMW Teen Driving Clinic. This is not High School drivers ed. These kids were put through several panic and quick responce courses. The begining of the day kids were dragging cones under their cars, failing to stop, turn in and completely missing instructions. These were lic. drivers on our streets and highways. By the end of the day there was a very impressive change!

Any kid with a ticket is seriously not mature enough or aware enough to have a license. One ticket is a serious red flag. But 4? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

Maybe I'm a strict parent, but my kids were fully aware that if they got a ticket they were done driving. Now I'm not saying they never sped or jumped on the throttle and shifted up through the gears. But I'm sure my rules stopped them from pushing the envelope more times than not. It's ok to say no to your kids.

[jd74914]

Any kid with a ticket is seriously not mature enough or aware enough to have a license. One ticket is a serious red flag. But 4? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

Maybe I'm a strict parent, but my kids were fully aware that if they got a ticket they were done driving. Now I'm not saying they never sped or jumped on the throttle and shifted up through the gears. But I'm sure my rules stopped them from pushing the envelope more times than not. It's ok to say no to your kids.

I'm 19, and my parents have the same philosophy as Rick. One ticket and my brothers or I am done. No more driving for a long time. I don't think that I ever needed that motivation to drive correctly, but for some (like my slightly younger brother) saying one strike and you're out seems to work very well.

I also agree with what Scott said in one of his posts. My Dad is a car guy; he likes fast cars and loves working on them. The rule here is that I can get any kind of car I want, and modify it however I want, as long as I build it from the ground up. While he would be opposed to me going out and buying a 911, he doesn't care if I buy a seriously neglected one and restore it. I know that I personally am a lot more careful with cars that I have expended blood on.

The whole situation really sucks for those kids and parents, and I do think that it was his parent's fault (in addition to his own). They should have never let him drive the car in the first place and he should never have brought those guys with him. Its all very sad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Dr. Roger]

This really is a call to arms to support our members with kids and friends with kids.
To suggest options to educate, and direct these young people towards learing safety and responsibility behind the wheel.
This story is very enlightening. Thanks Rick for sharing your personal experience.

That said, who here hasn't ever gone way too fast down some remote road or airport?

Anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)