http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Colum...rticleId=124526

Its about that kid that launched the M5 off the runway and died. Evidently, he was on a forum, not unlike this one. The M5 board seems to be down right now.

Since I can't read the forum, and see what people were posting, I'll need to wait until it's online. But I can't help but think that maybe someone could have reasoned with him not to drive so fast. Terribly sad.

My brother has the M6 version of that car. I can't imagine handing that car over to an 18 yo kid. Terrible story, I'm sure the father is devastated by his loss and its only going to get worse when the other families get involved.

I know it's sad and all... But what a fucking retard. Who flies a BMW off of an airstrip at 140+?

Valid points.

My reason for posting this was that as a forum, we need to recognize this stuff when it happens. Granted "most" 914s aren't as fast as that M5, we need to be on the lookout for that kind of thing.

I wouldn't give a kid any type of performance car until he found his brain.....it took me until I was in my 30s. No comments from the peanut gallery.....

Hopefully, other kids in his neck of the woods will learn from his fatal mistake. It's a tragedy that mistakes like this have to happen to wise up the kids AND the parental units.

One of my other cars is a Ford Focus. Back in 2001 when I bought it I used to post on a board dedicated to these cars. A lot of those posting on the board were young kids, a lot of them who bought their own cars, not daddy's hand out. There was this one kid, barely 18 who went by "NasThug" and he had his Focus modified to the max. He would post stories about taking certain freeway off ramps at high speed, and similar tales. The kid just couldn't slow down, and I think everyone suspected that it would to a bad end.

NasThug gave up on the Ford after a while, but some of the folks kept track of him. It was the Summer of 2004 that an article was published in the Fresno Bee about a kid on a sport bike. Single vehicle crash over 100 mph on a straight country road.

It was damn sad at his funeral.

Anyone can get in a car a GO fast. It takes experience and know how to get in the same car and be able to DRIVE fast. Unfortunetly this sort of thing happens all the time.

This kids bragadocious attitude reminds me alot of someone here.........

Bummer...Just bummer.

Well, I am almost 21 and my most powerful car is 115hp. I say the father was a moron and the son was ignorant. My father's car is only an a4 1.8 turbo and even though he leaves the keys at home for a week when he is on business I have never taken the car out without his permission.

As to him being behind the wheel? I am gonna say it shouldn't even be legal. I will admit to pulling stupid stuff in my car. I flog the celica sometimes just for fun, and probably the main reason I haven't killed myself is because its not powerful enough to get into trouble quickly in. I have learned a lot of this car, and have plenty more ontop of that before I will be ready to move up.

Sounds like to me you were brought up right. Congradulations on being intelligent and respectful, two things that seem to be missing in alot of todays "youth".

Pretty sad....I don't know too much to say other than I am glad I made it through those years alive.

I made it through those years because I had to drive a 55 Ford with a straight 6. What a pig that was.

The accident happened just north of the Tampa area and has been a popular subject at the lunch table. From what I've read in the local papers, he was posting on a BMW board and asking a lot of questions about going fast. There was a number of quotes from other members that the young man shouldn't try to drive his car very fast as he is very young and inexperieced. Evidently, youth and peer-pressure won out. This airport is actually private property and part of a subdivision that the owners all own their own planes. It's also the subdivision that John Travolta lives at, along with his 707 and Lear jet. We still haven't found out if the parents live there or if he snuck onto the runway.

-- Rob

From what I have read, the kids GF lived there, but he did not. However, several reports said that late night runs were not all that uncommon on the runway, and that there was little security on it.

Zach

When I was 18 I was driving a '68 bug with 60 something HP.
This story is sad, but it's Darwin's law, thinning out the gene pool.

Click to view attachment

I was talked into selling an 18 yr old kid my M3. He reduced it to rubble is 30 days after an agument with his GF. The driver lost control and was ejected from the car. His friend rode it out. The passanger got 6 stitches and a concusion. The driver walked away.

All kids are not the same. My 16 year old son drove this car to school every day for two years without a ticket or accident.

Rick,

What happened to the driver's side airbag in the M3?

You mean his wife was driving?

At 16 I was riding a motorcycle through the streets of Santa Maria without a care in the world.... then I started seeing wrecks and having friends of friends die in accidents and slowly it started hitting home. Its the FEAR of what you know that CAN happen that slows you down. At 16 or 18, you just don't know and it only takes one bad decision to end it.

A tragedy for sure, that will likely never end for the families (and their attorneys).

note aftermarket steering wheel

I bought my first car when I was 15 from my paper route money. It was a '73 Camaro with a sluggish 350 and a 2 barrel for $300. I spent another $1500 bringing the car back to pretty nice shape (I had a buddy who worked at a body shop). I had the money for a 4 barrel and dual exhaust, but my dad would not allow it. I was pissed. A year or two later, I found a '69 Camaro Z-28 RS with a 302, hugger orange, cowl induction, etc. for $3500 (now $50k in piss-poor condition), and he would not let me buy it, even though I had the money which I had earned all by myself.

These days, I thank God that my Dad loved me enough to save me from myself.

It seems that parents these days gravitate toward the two extremes - there are those who won't let their kids ride a bike without a helmet or climb a tree, and then there are those that give their kid access to a car with 530 HP. It is sad that common sense seems to be evaporating from our parental society as quickly as Britney Spears does something stupid. The two couldn't possibly be related.

Ken

Before getting the 'teener I owned an e36 M3. What an awesome sports car. Even with 240HP it was still a wild beast if you allowed it to be. Cars are dangerous. Period. Although this was mega-stupid. Lots of people die from going too fast in their cars.

plus 4 of his friends. sad story.

k

I saw that story on Jalopnik a few nights ago and followed it over to the M5 board. Yes, from the kid's demeanor, it was pretty evident that he was going to turn himself into a stain. Even though the car was technically his father's, in his posts he always tried to make it seem that it was his personal vehicle. There were some news clips interviewing classmates of the dead idiots and it seems like the classic spoiled-rich-kids-who-think-rules-don't-apply-to-them mindset.

I guess it is sad that 5 familes lost their sons. It is sad that those 5 sets of parents somehow failed to instill some common sense into their children.

Common sense is very rare these days, especially in those under 50. It is hardly any wonder that parents cannot properly teach their kids. That is sad. Good for a Darwin Award.

This is a repete-able event. Everyone with children on this BBS should make a pact with all of us to learn from this.

I'm going to share something here. One of my sons is a car guy. I will always remember his first drive by himself after getting his lic. at age 16. He asked if he could go to a friends house about 3 miles away. We had been practicing driving with a manual transmission and he was proficient enough with it to opporate the clutch in normal traffic. He asked if he could take my E12 530I.

As you all know Nothing I own is ever stock and this car was no exception. 5 sp conversion, free flow 533I manifolds, open exhaust, lamda injection conversion, etc. I tossed him the keys and told him to be careful. His face lit up with a beaming grin and his buddy could hardly contain he excitment. It felt good to me as well. But I knew this could go both ways.

I went up to my office on the third floor of my house. As he rolled away from the house everything was cool. But with my office window open I could hear him drop the hammer and wind up my big 6 2 blocks from the house. I called him on his cell phone and busted him!

Then I got on the net and signed him up for the Teen Driving Clinic through the Northstar Chapter of the BMWCCA. By the time the class arrived We had Purchased a VW GTI from the Salvage auction and completed the repairs together. This was a very enlightning experience for him. He brought 3 friends with him. They all went through the instruction and we talked about safe ways to enjoy your car in controlled environments.

After that day I allowed him to take my E36 M3 to school. I'm sure he had his moments. When the cats away... you know. But he'll be 21 soon and has never had an accident or ticket... yet.

I'm not saying I'm a perfect parent, I'm far from it. But I'm just saying we need to do what we can to teach our children.

I'm confident that the things I did helped. AS I stated above, not all kids mature the same. The photos of my M3 posted above were the result of a kid with no instruction. Before I sold the car to that kid I had the talk with him. I cautioned him about the car and told him he should take the Teen Driving School. His parents were divorced, (his dad was a detective...) But they payed no attension to him. Thankfully both kids in that car are alive.

Learn from this and teach your children well.

The sad part is the idiot took friends with him. This one I hang on the parents ... 4 citations and they still let him have the car. I taught my kids and each, thankfully, came out to be a decent driver.

Sad, but it repeats itself due to lack of due diligence by the parents.

Yeh, I'm an asshole.

...natural selection.

Parents don't raise rich kids, they simply hire someone else to do it. saw it all the time when i lived in Dallas. very sad to see them with everything in the world except what they want and need most....LOVE.

Rick, that was a great story and thank you for sharing. You remind me of my father (Not to age you or anything)

By the time I was 17 I had a 68' 911L that was much more of a car than a 17 year old should have had. But my father was much like you. He was a huge car guy himself and was proud I could work, school (Good grades) and afford the payments on the 911. I did get a couple of tickets in it over the years, but nothing major.

I think most of it is in the parenting.

I must agree that parents dropped the ball here. Very sad that they now have to live with that. Good lesson to us all that we need to be involved with our kids and not let society raise them as they will fail.

Manual transmission? What? (from the article. NVM)
I said it on the sandbox, I'll say it again here. No sympathy! I don't pitty the kids, because they're dead now. They can't tell the difference. I don't pitty the driver because he KNEW he was in over his head and still continued to drive like an ass. The only people I may have some sympathy for is the parents of the other kids. They may or have known about "Josh's" driving history, but it's unlikely.
Hopefully the parents of the driver will get a wake up call from this. However, as it always is with people, "It's not my fault. He was just a reckless kid", or much more likely "BMW shouldn't have made such a fast car. Time to sue!" I will say that I'm glad that they wiped out into a tree off the runway instead of into a minivan on the highway.
And by the way, you can kill yourself just as dead with a 70 HP teener, or anything else for that matter. When I see the stupid ricers around here doing 110 (maxed out) in their 89 Civic Hatchback, weaving through traffic, I'm HOPING for them to pile into the center divider. I've talked to a lot of those guys, and they drive that way because they LIKE to feel out of control. That's why I get in their face when they try to compare themselves to real racers, because racing is all about being IN control. Again, I just hope they lose it off the side of a mountain, instead of into a caravan.
That being said, I take the 914 out into the canyons from time to time and have my fun with it, but if I ever start to feel out of control or AT ALL over my head, I shut down. I also leave a rather large margin of error for all the unknowns found on public roads. Do I cross the line sometimes? Maybe. But if I do something stupid and it kills me one of these days, don't pitty me.
Rant over. You can start writing your letters now.
Mark D.

all I can say is glad I am still alive. I had a 70 Mustang I found in a barn when I was 16 in Iowa and bought for $700. That car went 117mph. All the time. The front end would be floating and I would just keep going. I drove to school wide open at least once per week. Blew that thing up (broke rings on 3 pistons) within a year doing burnouts at valve float and wheel hop on a pretty regular basis.

My uncle (who was a hot rodder) warned my dad over and over again to not let me have a muscle car of any kind. I had begged to get his 64 Impala with a 400 in it he had for sale and he refused to sell it to me, then I found a 500 cube 68 Cadillac Coupe de Ville, 64 Galaxy 390 4spd, 67 Poncho with a 428, etc and I found out a few years later that each one of those cars my uncle had blocked the sale by convincing my dad to refuse to let me have it. He did all he could to save my life. He tried on the Mustang but my dad figured it was a 302, how much damage could I do?

I feel sorry for the kids. They're just kids. And I was and am a very respectful person (my dad would have kicked my ass if I forgot to hold a door for someone behind me for instance) and he was big on respect. And I was a smart kid. But I was a 16yr old male into hot rods, so that was how it worked. I don't feel sorry for the driver's parents, they gave him a loaded weapon and said go play. The passengers, again, they were just kids and having a good time. Sucks they learned a harder lesson than I was afforded.

If you are a male and over the age of 25, consider yourself lucky, or a pansy. Either way would be the only way you didn't kill yourself doing stupid shit because you either tried stupid shit and lucked out or you were too scared to try stupid shit.

People are dangerous, cars are indifferent. My parents allowed me to buy a Go-cart

(paper route) and probably saved my life. LA...ya know. The best thing I ever did

was to get a 914. The handling and brakeing saved my life a few times. I think it

is an ideal car for a kid. Under powered, Great handling, great brakes and fun.

But that just me...

Can't say I agree with the generalization of blaming the parents. Though there are certainly cases where they can be the problem, good kids (or great kids) often do things you can't imagine once out of sight. This doesn't only pertain to cars! Best chance you stand, is to teach your children to think, and stick to the values you (try to) instill in them.

Andys

[quote name='So.Cal.914' date='Feb 1 2008, 11:15 AM' post='992975']
[quote]

The best thing I ever did

was to get a 914. The handling and brakeing saved my life a few times. I think it

is an ideal car for a kid. Under powered, Great handling, great brakes and fun.

But that just me...
[/quote]
I don't think I can agree with that. The 914 is underpowered, but it doesn't give you warning about when you push it too far. I would say the best cars for a kid are underpowered fwd imports. They are cheap to run, easy to maintain, and a little more subdued when it comes to handling. At 16, just the mere fact of paying attention to the road is too much for most.

i dont have much room to talk but at least some of those kids should have been able to say hey stop and let me out b4 u kill urself and us. some just dont have the insight to see wut can happen b4 it happens. hind sight is 20 20. but they at least one of them should have had enough common sense to see were things could end up. its sad though. i think if more kids had to work to get their rides they would appreciate them and not abuse them. also parents need to sit their kids down b4 they get their license and show them a few grossom videos or pics of wut can happen out there. when i went thru driving school they showed us the video red asphault. really grossom sad and scary. and this is just one incident of hundreds of thousands around the earth. i think all kids need to see something real life that can happen to scare them into safe driving. kids are stupid and hard headed. they need to be reached somehow someway. becuz most of the time its not just the kids involved it involves innocent drivers on the road too.i live in bakersfield cali, a few months ago some street racers were racing on rosedale hwy and they ran a redlight and one of em broad sided a car with an eldery couple and killed the husband. just sad. anyways kids need to wise up. and take driving for wut it is, a privelege. if they want to race go race on a controlled track.
steven

The little snot had FOUR tickets......MY kid would never have been a passenger let alone a driver with THAT record.

That's worse than SLIT's had back when he was driving a horse and buggy while delivering ice and moonshine....

What are you talking about?

The 914 is extremely forgiving.

And those underpowered fwd imports are the ones that get raced all the time.
Subdued handling? Gas to the floor, left foot braking through the corners. Pendulum turn here let off the gas. Shift. Pendulum turn.

My first car was a 91 Mazda mx6 hatch. WAY too fast. There was a day when I "raced" the whole Conifer corvette club. Luckily, it was after my first track experiences, but I was still young, dumb, and full of drek. This was on mountain roads, that I was familiar with. Weave, weave. straight away coming up, Punch it. 110. An eighties corvette tried to give chase, but didn't have a chance.

Later that year, the same car seized in first gear on the same straight doing about the same speed.

Both times, my track experience, and fantastic training saved my life. My youth and immaturity did not.

everyone who did'nt get involved in stupid stunts and dangerous behavior when they were 18 or so, please raise your hands now.

k

Rick I remember your experience and I like and respect you so please do not take offense with what I am about to post.

I personally feel it is extereme negligence to let a kid anywhere near a "performance" car without adult supervision, and ceratinly am against letting anyone under 25-30 own one. I don't care how well raised you think your kid is, he/she WILL push it to and past the limits of both the car and the drivers ability. It is just human nature. On the other hand a kid who has grown up "restoring" his/her own car has a lot more fear of damaging that vehicle as they have put part of their life into it. That car has become part of them not just a fast ass car. I firmly belive an 18 y.o. who has stripped repaired and reassembled a 74 911 is a much more aware and safer driver then an 18 y.o. who was handed the keys toi an 89 Jetta. There seems to have been a trend since I got out of high school (1991) of parents buying their kids higher end newer cars. I know, I deal with the wrecks on a weekly basis. My first car was a choice between a Datsun 210 or a 72 Beetle. 90% of the kids at my school drove some sort of old Audi, VW, Toyota 4 door etc. and I went to one of the schools in a wealthier area. Parents just didn't give the kids what the kid wanted. The kid got mom or dads old POS beater. What changed?????

1600 vw, datsun 510 wagon or chrysler newport custom with a 383 and four barrel (what i got to drive in high school and i discovered how fast each one would go) limits were still pushed. how fast would your beetle go scott?

k

I tinkerd with it a good bit after school I had it chirpping in 2nd and would make a semi-regular country run at around 90-95 m.p.h. 1600 d.p. sold it with 210,000 and the guy called me a copuple weeks later to tell me how awesome it was and insisted I had done more to it than I had. I had a really good friend of my dads build the engine. Old school VW legend around here, then I dicked with it to squeek a wee bit more out of it.

Seems to me that fewer and fewer parents are actually training their kids to drive. Seems they are leaving it up to a seriously inadequate public school driver's ed program. Of course, this is because most parents don't know the basics of defensive driving.

To your question about why more people don't make the kids rebuild the car... well there are a number of factors there. Ranging all the way from parents that don't know the business end of a screw driver to folks with more money than brains. I also think that people are lured into buying newer cars due to the "safety features" that newer vehicles have. Granted they are some great devices, but they can't make up for what is sitting behind the wheel. The sad reality is that STUPID kills.

Mike

about 160 km/h with the 1600 cc 50 HP stock motor ...
over 200 km/h with the 2.0L T4 with stock D-Jet ...

and i tend to agree, i always thought of myself as a good driver, but i certainly was pushing my cars much harder when i was younger.

i did a lot of stupid stuff, and i would probably have killed myself back then if i had driven a 500+ HP car ...
Andy

Is it a coincidence that so many Carrera GT are wrecked. You give any person TOO much power and something bad can happen. Quite frankly I'm close to ending Instructing in DEs. The newer Porsches (in this case, but it applies to Corvette ZR-1, BMW Ms, etc) have so much power and computer gismos to catch the car, that the drivers are gaining confidence without the skills. Dangerous combo. So age is no excuse or barrier.
T.C.

Kids are stupid (particularly males)!

I was 17 & my parents foolishly let me drive the "Family Truckster" (a 1960 4-door Dodge, with a 318 & pushbutton tanny) to school ONE day - ONE day!

That very weekend, I was to take delivery of a 55 Chevy, primed in black, but with a 283 & a 4-speed - for $125! It was 1964.

On the way from the school parking lot (with 6 other people inside) I ripped away & was going through the buttons (anyone remember those things). My soon to be mine Chevy was in front of me & he had 6 people inside. So, we're yukking it up, going through the "gears" & out walks "Bitsy" Nader ("Bitsy' rhymed & she could have fallen straight forward & never come close to hurting her face - nomasayin?). Well, the Chevy guys hit the brakes, made some catcalls & I'm looking at Bitsy - we hit REALLY hard. Don't know the speed, but I still have the image in my head - dust & dirt everywhere & the three people in the front seat of the 55 disappearing from sight (the seat mounts broke).

Needless to say, the Chevy was toast. My parents said, about the Dodge, "you broke it, fix it - it's yours now", along with all related expenses. I learned a hard lesson from that. I fixed that Dodge, drove it as a beer wagon for 6 months & traded in for a 65 Doge Dart with a V8 & 4-speed, that it learned to make into a very severe hotrod (wasted lots of bucks too).

I also befriended a Kentucky state trooper, who taught me how to drive & care for a VERY hot MoPar (his was a Street Hemi). Learned to drag race (off the streets) & how to rebuild things when I broke them. I learned respect (at 18) for the power & expense-to-maintain aspects of a high performance car. Also realized that I couldn't afford to keep feeding the roarty bastard!

Two years later I got my first VW, went into the Army, learned how to make a velocity stack for a Bug, tuned the timing & drag it (I reaaly could lift the front wheels off the ground on launch) until it crapped out when the throttle body iced over. Still, it was fun.

Point here is this. Kids will be dumb. Parents need to step in & create a sense of responsibility. Parents also need to be certain that the kids know how to drive - both from a safety & performance standpoint. Kids will test the limits, beacause they are indestructable. Show them that they aren't. Teach, or have them taught, how to drive from a performance standpoint. Yep, they'll still test thier limitations, but at least they'll have some proper training. Take them to an autocross a couple of time - then enter them. That'll wake them up.

I am so sorry for the parents who caused this tragedy (and, they did cause it). They will live with this sad event forever. They were wrong, stupid and inconsiderate - and a lot of people lost lives. These parents are responsible for EVERY lost life. I wouldn't want to be them.
Pat

I have to agree that alot of us have done dumb things as teenagers, but, I have to think that the driver of that BMW wasn't just some kid who got in a little over his head with a high performance car. There had to be some serious psychological problems with him to do what he did and that car just ended up being his way to end his life and take a few friends with him. It is truly tragic.