Peter from TX... 1970 914/6 Restoration & build th, My introduction & build thread -- PICS I Options

[charliew]

Pete Hi, I met you at Redbeards tranny clinic, It looks like you are off to a good start. The stands you have are the only ones I have. I have them under at least three projects. I buy some every time HF puts them on sale when I need some more. I have released one and had it come down and pinch my hand as I was pulling it out from under a car. The only way these stands can fail is if you get some trash inside and clog the teeth or somehow get damaged teeth on the shaft. It pays to pay attention to what is going on and make sure the release levers are very free and not rusted up or gummy.
I'm the old guy that had the k5 blazer and my son is also a aggie me.

I haven't worked on 6's but the vw motors leak at the cylinder ends and are pretty nasty but resealing usually works on the rebuild. When you have time study up on sealers for aircooled motors Jake Raby has several sealers for his 4 stuff. Most rebuilds can be done on a reasonable budget just by not buying the first stuff you come across. The net will help a lot unfortunately the studying is not over you just get a better subject.

Good luck and don't rush your project.
Charliew

[dbgriffith75]

You've probably heard this already in the 3 pages of replies here, but I'm too damn lazy to read through all those posts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

First, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Second, you came to the right place for advice on a resto. Don't be afraid to ask about anything because chances are there's at least one person here that knows WTF you're talking about.

Third, good luck with your project- looks like it will be a nice one.

[AgPete139]

CARB WOES:

Hey everyone, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

I threw a few different combos into the search engine and didn't find much on the way of carburetor specifics and explanation. (Perhaps another sticky could be made discussing this type of fuel sending?)

What are the main differences between the different makes (Weber, Solex, Zenith) and models? Apparently Webers are easier to use & tune (regarding the idle screw, etc), and less problematic (minus them being picky about clean fuel).

What does IDA, IDF, DCOF, ICT, DCNF, DCO, (plus other DGV, DHTA, DHSA, DCD, DICA< ADFA) mean? Acronyms?

Can someone please explain to me what Weber 40IDA-3C 3bbl stands for?
40 doesn't represent diameter or stack height, and IDA I have no clue about. The only thing I'm sure of is the 3 barrel / triple throat designation and that Edoardo Weber made it in Itality pre-1990 (Madrid, post). Apparently, it is cross-referenced with a 40IPTP-3C. Ferrari uses this exact type as well.

(IMG:http://www.piercemanifolds.com/Images/Catalog/40_ida_3bblc.JPG)

There is also jetting, stack & venturi size, 32 mm - 50mm, etc. I have only read threads that already use the terminology, and suggestions on what each person should tune their setup.

Sorry if this is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) . I'm truthfully inquisitive about the carbs. My search for a quality rebuilt kit has prompted this.


Emulsion? I've never run a carb on any other of my vehicles, and I've only adjusted the AFR on the Edelbrock 4 bbl off of an acquaintance's 70's Stingray in a parking lot once (he had just moved to warm Texas in wintertime, he was running extremely rich, and he knew nothing about the car except that it was automatic.

I apologize for having so many questions, and thank you in advance for your advice.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

Peter

P.S. Have also visited PierceManifolds.com, Weber-Carbs.com, Wikipedia, Aircooled (has only TIV models), and a couple other online shopping stores.

[xperu]

Hi I'm in league City, south of Houston, if you need some help or anything let me know, I am no expert by any means, but I had pretty much tore my 914 down and a year ago and put it back on the road last week. Much of the help I received came from this forum and vendors on this site. Give ma a call sometime I have extra stuff you might need or just a lending hand. Mike Phone 832-621-5193

[mikey]

Carb woes....sounds very familiar. Is your engine stock or did you modify it?

My stock 2.0 six came with Zenith carbs. I was told those wouldn't work with the mods I did to the engine (2.4 P&Cs and heads, S cams), so I tried Webers. They didn't work either. They ran roughly, wouldn't idle, and it didn't feel like the engine was making enough power.

So I finally went with my tuners suggestion and bought a set of PMO carbs. He said they are basically improvements on the Weber design, which I understand hasn't been manufactured in a long long time . They are brand new and I'm no longer dealing with old crappy parts. PMOs aren't cheap though - about $1500 per carb. I saved up and got them anyway...worth every penny.

Call PMO and tell them about your engine. They will know what kind of carb you need and will build it for your specific engine.

[carr914]

A few answers for you;

Solex - came on Early 911's 1965-66. They did not have Float bowls, therefore requiring 2 fuel pumps. Had Severe "flat spots".

Zenith - Came on 1970-mid 73 911T. Sometimes also refered to as Solex as well, but these have Float Bowls

Weber - 1st appeared on 911's in 1966 through 1973, when Fuel-Injection was on all Porsche models. Factory 914-6s came with Webers (mikey, it sounds like you started off with the wrong carbs). Webers are very adjustable, but can also have 'flat spots" Typical problems at this point are worn shaft bushings. Early Weber's had bronze bushings. It is worth every penny to have these re-built by an expert such as Harry Bieker vs a Porsche shop that says they can do them.

PMO bought the rights to the Weber carbs when it was no longer viable for Weber to manufactor them. PMO had been the place to buy replacement parts anyway.

The 3C stands for triple choke, 3bbl for 3 barrel, 40 is venturi size.


T.C.

[mikey]

Factory 914-6s came with Webers (mikey, it sounds like you started off with the wrong carbs).

That's probably true. It's an original six with matching body/engine/transmission numbers, but the engine was disassembled and in a basket when I bought it.

I have also heard that Harry Bieker is good. I decided to go with PMOs because they had such good performance and my experience as borne that out.

I also kept all the stock parts in case originality outweighs performance later (like with the 356 crowd).

[charliew]

Hi Pete, I hope this isn't too late but a word from a old guy thats been missing with cars since about 60. If your car is low mileage and even if it isn't you may not need much on the motor but a hone and rings and a valve job and bearings and reseal everything. I know it's pretty dirty but thats the way with old air cooled stuff. There are new sealers and new techniques and this board probably knows all the answers. On the motor if it will turn through try to put it on #1 tdc and take some pictures of the cams and dist position so you will be reassured when it goes back together it is right. I'm sure you can figgure it out but a lot of pictures are great problem solvers as to exactly what went where. There is a thread on here (homemade tools) I think that shows a simple cheap homemade soda blaster that you can clean the carbs and aluminum parts up with. On the carbs try to write down the number of turns on each adjustment from the seated in position, don't turn them in too tight just seated is good, and you should have a good starting point when going back together. The carbs may only need cleaning but you probably will need new gaskets. It might surprise you but when motors are covered with oil they clean up like new, there won't be much corrosion. You might be able to save the carb gaskets if you are careful. The soda blast will make them look new and washes of with warm water and won't hurt anything. Mark the rockers so they go back exactly where they came from. Check around you might need new exhaust valves to be safe.

You are doing great but it will help if you study other restorations before you get too far to avoid any costly errors.

I think I already said it but you have just finished 4 yrs. of studying stuff that might have been boring at times but now you can study something that is a lot of fun. The great thing is someone has already done the exact same thing you are starting on and it is probably on the web.

Have a good time and be careful a doctor visit makes it get real expensive fast.

You've got lots of good knowledgable guys close by. 914sixer and experu have both sold me good parts and they are close.

Charlie

[Eric_Shea]

My stock 2.0 six came with Zenith carbs.

Someone stole your Webers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) What TC said; 6's never came with Zenith's.

Sometimes also refered to as Solex as well, but these have Float Bowls

Huh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[AgPete139]

Here's an update, and a couple dilemmas.

Redone front suspension:

• New inner & outer bearings + seals
• KYB fronts
• All coated front suspension & parts, polished original hardware
• Wagner organic pads (gonna be replaced with the Porterfield R4S group buy though)
• Balljoints (ok, I used the old nut)
• Lines & new (stock size) 19mm MC
• Turned rotors have been exposed to the air (hence discoloration), Uncaked crud.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Front1.jpg)

I rebuilt the Bosch starter. She was tested at O'Reilly's afterwards.

I rebuilt the pedal cluster with the bronze bushing kit. Painted wooden floorboard black. Hooked it all up again.



New vs old. I did not want to rebuild it, so I bought a new one. Dilemma #1: What are both the connections for? I noticed the new one only has 1 contact point, and the old has 2 points. I installed it as is with the single contact, but I am thinking I should change out with the old. Purposes for this?

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/DSC00234.jpg)



(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/DSC00453.jpg)






Right side of the shortblock:



(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/PC456.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/DSC00471.jpg)

This is pretty much the condition of all:

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/PC5.jpg)
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/CylinderWall1_A.jpg)


Here is each P&C set with it's corresponding head / ports.

1
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Set1.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Valves1.jpg)

2
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Set2.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Valves2.jpg)

3
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Set3.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Valves3.jpg)

4
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Set4.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Valves4.jpg)

5
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Set5.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Valves5.jpg)

6
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Set6.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/Valves6.jpg)




But, this is where the kicker is. I have been EXCEEDINGLY careful and gentle throughout this entire disassembly process with the magnesium parts. I am unsnapping the circlips that hold the wristpins to the pistons and this "piece" falls out onto the garage floor. In the back of my mind, I think, "Oh sh*t!" but tell myself not to worry. I examine the piece, and instantly realize it's a broken piece of the #2 cylinder!

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/big_pete139/1970%20Porsche%20914%206/BrokenPiston2.jpg)


So, I'm now in panic mode.

Guys & gals, what are my options?

• Where could I find another, single, stock 2.0T piston? 80 mm bore, 66 mm stroke?
• Is JE Pistons a reasonable option (that is in my price range <$1K) ?
• Stock is 8.6:1, but what piston set will yield a slightly higher compression?
• I understand that 2.2L pistons share the same crank, and the 2.0 heads need to be matched. How do they do this?

I do NOT want to switch to 2.2L heads though. I am aiming for near stock, and a stock cam.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Thanks in advance for your help,
Pete



.

[charliew]

Pete try to measure all six pistons to see how much they vary in od. I think you can find one used piston exactly like the broke one and the same od size. I would only have the cylinders honed and clean the pistons up and get another one and use them with new rings. The cylinders are not scoured or worn. I don't see a wear pattern where the rings stop at the top of the cylinder so there is not much wear. The piston might have fallen down and hit the case when you pulled the cylinder off.

[carr914]

Friends don't let friends drive on KYBs! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Put some good inserts in there before you button everything up. And get some good shocks for the rear.

I'm sure that I have a few factory 914-6 Pistons & Cylinders in a box in my garage if you are interested in me digging them out.

T.C.

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) What Mr. T.C. said. Get some Konis or Boges for that beast. Boge is a really fine insert. Stock and under rated.

[AgPete139]

Hey guys,

This is more like a mini update for me. I haven't been around much, and life has pretty much taken off. Job relocation, moving, heavy workloads, relationship, apartments, finances, getting hit by a drunk driver and getting my totalled, y'all know how it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Now, a year later or so later, I'm tooting around on the /6. Parts get expensive. I'm upgrading the chain tensioners and guides, and getting machine work done on the crank/pistons/fly/cylinders still. I gave them to a notable German/Porsche shop here, and 4 months later they hadn't even been touched. Took them back, and never got back to working on it.

I've got more pictures, but nothing really worth noting.


NOTE: Tire search results:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...65%2A+%2B195%2A


I saw the 165-HR15 were the originals, but I'm going to 195/65/R15 for a comfortable ride (without rubbing & more track width) close to stock height with only a 1.6% error on the speedo. I won't be competing or vintage autoX still, so I feel that this is the best selection for weekend cruising. Possible rubbing on the front end at full lock is not a concern; afterall, check out the DD in my siggy... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


This is an ultra slow build.



Pete

[charliew]

Pete if you got a good stable job you like that is a good accomplishment. Try to get a replacement good used pc combo and get the piston the same weight if you can. I think other than the normal stuck valves the motor looked good. Not sure you nedd anything but a valve job and hone on the top end. The crank can be checked by you with a mike or new bearings and plastigage, if the old inserts still look good use them with the plastigage and if the journals are smooth it might just need polishing by a good shop. Try to get something done while you are single and have extra money to tie up long term so you can close the motor up because at your age babies come along and things really change then.

[texag09]

Howdy,

Not sure how I missed this from before but howdy from a fellow ag and Houstonian. Looks like you are already passing my up on my project. Plus you got a 6.

Let me know if you need any local help.

Thanks, and gig'em

[AgPete139]

Pete if you got a good stable job you like that is a good accomplishment. Try to get a replacement good used pc combo and get the piston the same weight if you can. I think other than the normal stuck valves the motor looked good. Not sure you nedd anything but a valve job and hone on the top end. The crank can be checked by you with a mike or new bearings and plastigage, if the old inserts still look good use them with the plastigage and if the journals are smooth it might just need polishing by a good shop. Try to get something done while you are single and have extra money to tie up long term so you can close the motor up because at your age babies come along and things really change then.

Tell me about it. I've been saving up quite a bit, and although the gf and I are now officially living together and she's only a student still (at a reputable law school here in Houston), I have to manage my money extra hard.

Everything IS good internally, and I'm still getting the machine shop to give it a quick look through. I was able to source the OEM piston, and they are getting checked by another Porsche shop. More to come later.

I'm going to have the case professionally cleaned and treated, along with the heads. It's just laborious.

A family is not a part of the equation, but perhaps an engagement in upcoming months. Who knows? I'm holding out as long as possible. But first, I need to dump all I can into this before it is too late, indeed.

Charlie, I'm making a trip up to DFW in the next couple of months. Will you have time for a cruise?

Howdy,

Not sure how I missed this from before but howdy from a fellow ag and Houstonian. Looks like you are already passing my up on my project. Plus you got a 6.

Let me know if you need any local help.

Thanks, and gig'em

Howdy!

Do you have pics of your build? (EDIT: Nevermind, found it.) What part of Houston are you?

Pete

[texag09]

Ih -10 at 610 (west side) Near Memorial Park, off of N. Post Oak.

[charliew]

Pete when you come through Waco let me know ahead of time and maybe my son and I can meet you for dinner or lunch in town. Actually coming through waco is longer than IH 45 though. My 75 914 is not registered to drive.

[patssle]

Hey fellow Houstonians. Good to see a couple more out there! Now just need to see them on the road!