Turning /6 headers into heat exchangers, Just postulating Options

[TimT]

try these Looky

[rktmn247]

Or do what I am thinking about. I'm doing a /6 conversion with headers and a front mounted oil cooler. I am thinking about building a heat exchanger/box heated by the hot oil before it goes to the cooler. Seems simple enough? Just need to figure out what to use for the heat exchanger?

Oil doesn't get hot enough. Your talking 300 to what over 600 deg.

Coolant temps in water cooled engines are around 180 deg. so why wont this work?

[Root_Werks]

do what PMS does and simply box a section of the headers and blow air through ...

do NOT weld the box to the headers, just make two halves and pinch/press them together.

this will work fairly well ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) Andy

(IMG:http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/parts/724.jpg)

I have had a pair of the B&B stainless Steel heater boxes on my 914 for almost 2 years now. They have good air flow, but don't really get all that hot which isn't needed in my area. So they work really well. They were $1800 back then. I remember the tube idea I did and is probably still on the flared orange six I did years ago. It worked REALLY well in town until you got on the freeway, then the tubes cooled down to almost cold air. But in town it was really nice and toaty warm. Wish I could have tried insulating the tubes.

[SirAndy]

I'm doing a /6 conversion with headers and a front mounted oil cooler.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that should work, but you'll need to plumb it a bit different so that you can suck in the warm air with the stock fresh air blower.

in the stock configuration, the fresh air blower never sucks in the hot air from the ducts in the longs.
in order to force air through the cooler (think stop & go traffic), you will have to modify your airbox to suck from the warm air inlets ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[messix]

I'm doing a /6 conversion with headers and a front mounted oil cooler.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that should work, but you'll need to plumb it a bit different so that you can suck in the warm air with the stock fresh air blower.

in the stock configuration, the fresh air blower never sucks in the hot air from the ducts in the longs.
in order to force air through the cooler (think stop & go traffic), you will have to modify your airbox to suck from the warm air inlets ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

just run a something like a tranny cooler on the scavenge side that would be mounted inside a box that the heater blower would blow thru then on to long duct.

[SirAndy]

just run a something like a tranny cooler on the scavenge side that would be mounted inside a box that the heater blower would blow thru then on to long duct.

yeah, but he was talking about a front mounted engine oil cooler. which is what i have. it gets plenty up front, but when you're in stop/go traffic, there's no forced air flow, thus you wouldn't get any warm air inside the cabin.

the fresh air blower is in the perfect place to be reused to blow the warm air from the front cooler into the cabin ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) Andy

[Dr Evil]

Good discussion going on here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

rick, I dont need a set of HEs. luckily, but thanks for the offer. I have a nice set of stockers for my /6 that were donated and salvaged through the net work here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I am just thinking of ways to warm the cars because it is cold here and I am going to need to put some type of HE system on my future bus/vair conversion some day (oh no, here he goes again with the damn vair).

I like the cessna HE idea. I bet I cold make something similar for less.

The problem with Dan's set up with the pipes is that there is not enough surface area to get heat saturated and combat the airs cooling effect. In particular, with internal surface area that is not exposed to the cooling air flow, you would be able to keep the air warm.

Is it OK to weld stainless to stainless in the idea that I had with the fins?

As for the oil cooler concept, Rennegade already has a water cooled set up that employs many of the concepts you guys are talking about, but with water. I bet you could copy their blower set up and plumbing for the oil lines and put them in the same place as the heater core would have gone. You may even be able to utilize a smaller front cooler as the heater core, even when not in use, would provide extra surface area for shedding heat. I would even immagine that plumbing the oil cooling system would be easier as the lines would be smaller than the H2O stuff. Would you need an extra oil pump to flow through all of that plumbing and the cooler, though?

[Eric_Shea]

I like the cessna HE idea. I bet I cold make something similar for less.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

They're $100 bucks... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I think that's one of the best ideas I've seen presented here in a long time.

$400 GPR Headers
$250 Heat Boxes
$650 for a new system out the door?

No brainer.

[So.Cal.914]

As for the oil cooler concept, Rennegade already has a water cooled set up that employs many of the concepts you guys are talking about, but with water. I bet you could copy their blower set up and plumbing for the oil lines and put them in the same place as the heater core would have gone. You may even be able to utilize a smaller front cooler as the heater core, even when not in use, would provide extra surface area for shedding heat. I would even immagine that plumbing the oil cooling system would be easier as the lines would be smaller than the H2O stuff. Would you need an extra oil pump to flow through all of that plumbing and the cooler, though?

That should work. It is such a short trip from the front of the car to the blower box

I doubt you would need to up grade the oil pump.

[Dr Evil]

Ah, I ass-u-med that since they were aviation they were expensive.

[andys]

I built some heater boxes some 30 years ago on a turbo 914. The Crown kit headers didn't have any, so I made my own which worked as well as the stock ones. Notice that the stock heater boxes on a -4 are pretty long, and the air flow runs down one side, makes a turn ,and returns to the front. Plenty of time/surface area to heat the air. I employed the same thinking when I built mine making sure the devious path idea was copied. I basically brazed some sheet metal boxes together.

Andys

[IronHillRestorations]

Heat doesn't have to travel far in a small aircraft.

Anyone with vintage heat exchangers would probably be well served with this little CO1 dectector.

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/produ...2816/index.html

[Dave_Darling]

Remember that oil usually takes quite a while to come up to temp--longer than the coolant in a water-cooled car. And you usually want a thermostat to keep cold oil out of your cooler (for various reasons), which means that in cold weather you may not get heat for a looooooooong time...

--DD

[rfuerst911sc]

Remember that oil usually takes quite a while to come up to temp--longer than the coolant in a water-cooled car. And you usually want a thermostat to keep cold oil out of your cooler (for various reasons), which means that in cold weather you may not get heat for a looooooooong time...

--DD

That is a valid point but I'm in Orlando Florida where it get's into the 30's for maybe 1 week out of the year. I'm really looking to add some heat don't really need that much. If I'm running oil lines up front for a cooler anyway I think building a small heater box in the front trunk to go between the engine and the cooler would be relatively easy. Just in the concept stage.

[Root_Werks]

I like the cessena HE idea. Get some basic headers and weld some heat sinks(fins) on them, wrap them in the aviation HE's and see how it works.

Mister Evil, you gonna give it a whirl?

[Dr Evil]

I like the cessena HE idea. Get some basic headers and weld some heat sinks(fins) on them, wrap them in the aviation HE's and see how it works.

Mister Evil, you gonna give it a whirl?

Not any time soon, I just like to think out loud.

[Eric_Shea]

I just like to think out loud.

Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/locust.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[slackin' at work]

these are awesome:
http://www.webastoshowroom.com/blueheat/index.html

gas heaters. they will cook you out of your car. I had on in a ghia vert.
the new ones are much more "safe" than the old 50-60's vw/porsche versions.

a little pricey at 1800 (installed) but if you want real heat in an aircooled car... this is the only way to go.

[Dr Evil]

these are awesome:
http://www.webastoshowroom.com/blueheat/index.html

gas heaters. they will cook you out of your car. I had on in a ghia vert.
the new ones are much more "safe" than the old 50-60's vw/porsche versions.

a little pricey at 1800 (installed) but if you want real heat in an aircooled car... this is the only way to go.

Nah, I want to salvage gas milage, $$$ and such. You can heat an air cooled without one of those. The heating systems just need to be maintained once they are functional.


Eric, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/KMA.gif)