Crazy idea for the Type IV engine shroud..., ..but I think it would look crazy good! Options

[horizontally-opposed]

So I've seen a lot of people do interesting things with the stock Type IV shroud to make it look more interesting. Body color, silver, red, orange, you name it. But none of these has really appealed to me. I've thought about ideas like CF (too modern for the car for my tastes) and wrinkle black (the way I would probably go). But then I saw the shroud in this thread:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=81971

I like this color, as it reminds me of the old Bosch distributor caps. But then THAT got me to thinking about another material I associate with this color, and that's the ultra-trick and way cool naked fiberglass Porsche used to use on 906/911R motors as well as throughout the 908s and 917s. Morspeed has duplicated it, albeit at far higher levels of quality and MUCH higher gloss, for its restorations.

Question is, could it be done for reasonable money? Could the stock shroud be used to make a mold? I frankly can't think of a cooler looking, period-correct hotrod 914-4 engine bay than this setup with a pair of carbs so long as the finish can be nailed. I think I'd like it even better than the Fat Perf. setup and the DTM, though I know it wouldn't outperform the latter.

pete

[McMark]

I think it's a great idea Pete. Got any good pictures of 'naked' fiberglass for members who aren't familiar?

[McMark]

This look, right?

[pin31]

Carbon Fiber would look cool.....

[horizontally-opposed]

This look, right?

THAT'S the look...

I think the key would be getting the over-the-top obvious weave and high gloss that Morspeed favors. Or not? Wonder if someone could photoshop a couple of 914-4 engine bay shots to give us a rough idea of what this might look like.

pete

[Jake Raby]

It's simple...
We can easily do this by just using a clear gelcoat rather than a colored gelcoat. I have made DTMs like this for demonstration purposes and it does look very cool.

I have a mold for 2.0 cylinder tins and could pretty easily finish our blower housing molds for the hybrid vanagon/914 shroud kit if I knew people would buy them.(superior cooling air discharge volume and pressure compared to stock)

Its just a matter of volume, there are many things we could offer but the market just won't support it. These things are very cool, but it takes a certain breed of enthusiast to appreciate them- others just think its ugly.

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

So I've seen a lot of people do interesting things with the stock Type IV shroud to make it look more interesting. But then THAT got me to thinking about another material I associate with this color, and that's the ultra-trick and way cool naked fiberglass Porsche used to use on 906/911R motors as well as throughout the 908s and 917s.

.................... Fat Perf. setup ........

pete

This cooling fan set-up with the "natural" F/G look.....

[Dave_Darling]

"Natural"? Since when is red gel-coat "natural"?

Sure, it matches the car, that's cool. But Pete is talking about the translucent yellowish un-painted fiberglass, like in the picture of the 914-6 engine tin that McMark posted.

And after seeing the cover of Pano (sorry, Pete) a couple of months ago, with the sixteen-cylinder 917 engine, I won't disagree that it would be a really cool thing!!

--DD

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Noooooooo,
It didn't come out right, I meant that the red fan shroud should be natural f/g. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[749142]

ever thought about chrome?
my father had a 72, he chromed the engine tin and that was bitchin.

[PeeGreen 914]

Hey Mark... can I have that fiberglass 6 engine shrouding? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jake Raby]

Noooooooo,
It didn't come out right, I meant that the red fan shroud should be natural f/g. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

And it should also have internal diverters to direct the air where it needs to be so there isn't a 150F temperature differential across the 4 cylinders, but it doesn't.

[rick 918-S]

This look, right?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) That peaks the needle on the cool meter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

It's simple...
We can easily do this by just using a clear gelcoat rather than a colored gelcoat. I have made DTMs like this for demonstration purposes and it does look very cool.

I have a mold for 2.0 cylinder tins and could pretty easily finish our blower housing molds for the hybrid vanagon/914 shroud kit if I knew people would buy them.(superior cooling air discharge volume and pressure compared to stock)

Its just a matter of volume, there are many things we could offer but the market just won't support it. These things are very cool, but it takes a certain breed of enthusiast to appreciate them- others just think its ugly.

I don't think the numbers would be there over time to keep this available, but then maybe I am wrong. That said, the more things you can do to make expensive Type IVs attractive to those with the funds, the better. I think it's pretty clear you've done enough to make the motors VERY attractive on the subjects that count (uh, let me see here: power, torque, efficiency...) but no one minds a good-looking engine bay.

So what kind of numbers and at what price would you need to make a small-ish run of them worth your while? I'm thinking group buy. Questions are:

-Should all the pieces be done or just the on-engine shroud?

-Does your hybrid Vanagon setup keep the cool ridges etc. of the stock tins? Not sure this matters...

pete

[Jake Raby]

Some of the ridges are there, but a few have to be removed to make the units from glass inside molds.

The only killer is the "llok" can't be achieved with components that need to be super strong as the glass gets too thick to allow the transparency. Thats what would make the blower housing difficult to make because it has to accomodate an alternator bracket and needs rigidity.

The cylinder tins would be fairly easy to do since they need little strength or rigidity.

My X4CS DTM Carrera cooling system should do enough in the looks department to take things to the next level and its being made for effectiveness more than a "look" as I have little to no desire to make blingy items that don't increase the longevity/reliability/efficiency or power of an engine while looking good.





I don't think we'll have any "attractiveness" issues after I reveal this baby in mid 2009

I don't

[horizontally-opposed]

Some of the ridges are there, but a few have to be removed to make the units from glass inside molds.

The only killer is the "llok" can't be achieved with components that need to be super strong as the glass gets too thick to allow the transparency. Thats what would make the blower housing difficult to make because it has to accomodate an alternator bracket and needs rigidity.

I think the only way this idea makes sense is for those who don't need/don't want/can't afford the DTM setup.

So, as a replacement for the stock tin on the engine (which many building your motors retain) could it be done? I get the sense you mean the structural issues are only issues with your upgraded cooling systems. And the setup you hint at here, as well as the Fat IV setup (too bad it seems to need an internal redesign), don't need any aesthetic help. Just some gloss black paint, or whatever color people want.

I am also not interested in items that look blingy, either. Period. But, as someone wise once said, once the man is made, clothing greatly improves his appearance. The 914's Type IV has never been, uh, particularly nice looking, even with carbs. Just trying to think of ways to address that... I also like the idea of the appearance of the engine bay reflecting the idea that 100-150 pounds have been saved over installing a 911 engine... and nothing says "lightweight" like 911R cues.

The opposite of bling, in my book.

Looking at that four-cam motor prompted me to wonder if you of all people have played around with twin-plugging the Type IV. I remember an article way back when about RPM in Florida doing it, and that the writer said the "smoothness" of the twin-plug Type IV was very noticeable. Given that you're doing your own heads, and the availability of V8 distributors out there (as opposed to the no easy/cheap way to fire a twin-plug flat 6). Or have you arrived at the conclusion that it's not necessary?

pete

[jd74914]

That 4-cam has very interesting throttle linkage. I have never seen any linkage with a bent leg like that.

[Jake Raby]

Pete, twin plugging is standard on all my engines larger than 102mm bore size and has been for a couple of years.

This is my Wife's recently completed German Look 79 Vert. It sports a 2.8L twin plug TIV and is pictured here two weekends ago laying down 195 RWHP and 206 lb/ft of torque with max HP@ 5,400 RPM and max torque at 3,500 at the Southeast Dyno Day
(IMG:http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/wrenchnride247/100_3403.jpg)

(IMG:http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/wrenchnride247/100_3434.jpg)


here is the IDA Weber equipped twin plug beast. It idles at 800 RPM smooth as silk and has the throttle response of a crotch rocket. It runs 10.5:1 CR on 89 octane pump gas and this weekend it got 33.3 MPG on it's first long distance cruise.
(IMG:http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/wrenchnride247/100_3435.jpg)

here is the youtube video of the dyno pull.. At the end you'll hear someone say "no way, that has to be a mistake".. The engine sounds so stock no one would ever believe it makes 250 FWHP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPJI6nhwy10

Here is the dyno graph from my dyno that was done prior to the event, the difference was the muffler that we had to run for dyno day pulled 20 HP from the engine, but Chris and I are working on the redesign now. Lok at the power and look at the revs, thats the amazing part. What N/A 911 engine can do that!!


We can do twin plugs with carbs and this modified Nissan dizzy, or with EFI and twin plug direct ignition.

This is one of the things I wanted to talk to you about!

[purple]

uh, Jake,

Can I put A DTM setup on my crappy hydro-cam engine please?

KTHXBAI

[Jake Raby]

yeah, but do you really need it?