A Real One For Ya, Straight from the doctor me thinks Options

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

We have a Georgia State rebuilders license and can rebuild cars here as we please and after they are rebuilt they are inspected by the government inspector for goodness.

So who knows what you might buy from AA. Might be a real six might be a fake, they can rebuild cars as they please.

Funny. It is too expensive to rebuild them to make a profit. Only for a customer. May be a rust repaired six or may be a rebodied six. Customers choice.

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

Another one we did came to us as an original owner six that an insurance company had paid over 12,000 to repair in 1980. It was the rear half of the original owners car complete with door jamb sticker, and the front half of a 1976 model complete with the four cylinder serial numbers! A bastard to say the least. As everyone knows the 76 front half is entirely different than the 70 914-6 and how the repairing body shop (one well known in Atlanta) fit the dash in was pure butchery!
The only solution was to rebody this car into a straight rust free 70,71 chassis, which we did and about $30,000 dollars later, returned him a straight clean one piecer!!!!!!!!

[736conver]

He is keeping the car for life so to him it really doesn't matter but the money savings does, AND he will have a finer restoration as a result.

He wont live forever.

I can see this thread is going in circles. Im done with it.

[Ferg]

There is a funny article about a 911 turbo on our website that I inspected and then called the cops. Please read it for a laugh.


http://www.autoatlanta.com/Life/930story.html

That's supposed to make me laugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) The way I understand it, you took advantage of some a customer that may have unknowingly bought a stolen car, instead of informing him and letting him sort it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I'd sure like to hear his side of the story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Ferg

[dw914er]

i do sorta understand how you can retitle a newer car to an older car

ive seen it with a fairly new cobra factory five roadster, that was titled as a 65. didnt really help the value of the car, but it allowed the car to be named under ford, instead of a special project. Helped make the car easier to sell ( you can get financed for thats situation). But as i said, didnt really help the value (you could still tell it was a fiberglass roadster, in stead of the aluminum that is correct, and it as a factory 5 frame.

Not sure about the vins and stuff, but it could be, if properly done, is legitimate

But still uneasy about how lawful it is.

the fact probably is, even if you get the car to say it is a 6, it will cost more to make correct than whatever you could make on it. I guess you just get the joy of saying, i have a real 6, but thats probably about it

chances are is that car will probably end up for scrap metal, or become some caged race car.

But for other cars, i could see the real problem. Lets say, you get a new 69camaro coupe, and build it up. Then you happen to have a COPO vin (think of yenko) for the car, and for the motor. That right there will skyrocket the value if youdont know what to look for, which could, in my mind, be fraud.

My tip for the ebay auction is to list everything that is going on, etc. When there are facts missing, or missing explainations, or the actual federal law to swap vins on a car, it makes alot of people uneasy about how legitmate the sale is. but that goes for any ebay auction, the more you have, the more comfortable the buyer feels

doesnt really affect me though

[LvSteveH]

This is a subject we really need to get a definitive answer on. We need to know what federal and state laws apply. You'd think with as much as it happens with valuable cars there would be a definitive answer somewhere.

Plenty of six figure vintage race cars are no longer running their factory tub, but they are still considered authentic. Sometimes they were rebuilt on a factory replacement, sometimes it was just a donor car sourced locally. This isn't just a porsche issue, it happens with just about all makes and models.

A vast majority of the time there is no state inspection and I would even go so far as to say it almost never happens. State officials don't know the intricacies of 40 year old cars. I've had to actually prove to them that something isn't right and when they finally accepted that it had been tampered with they treated me like I was an idiot for wanting to get it rectified.

George said anyone who knows what they're looking at can tell if a car has been rebadged, and that's not true at all. He also basically inferred that the practice of swapping VINs was only done in conjunction with a full restoration. Where do you draw the line? How bout a dented fender? Maybe a deep scratch that needs to be touched up. Anyone capable of extensively restoring a porsche to a high standard is capable of swapping VINs in a manner that would be totally undetectable, by George or anyone else.

Some cars are rebodied due to rust or accident damage. Some are done to get around emissions laws, and some are of course done to cover up a theft.

Is it ok for someone in California to rebadge their 76 to a 72 so it's emissions exempt? Is it ok for someone to rebadge their 74 to a 70 to be legal for vintage racing? How about buying a rough six and merging it with a clean early four cylinder chassis?

I have a lot of money tied up in cars and parts and I don't like guessing when it comes to stuff like this. I wouldn't be comfortable selling a vin swap car for fear of it coming back to bite me. It would be nice to know EXACTLY what is and isn't legal.

[dw914er]

There is a funny article about a 911 turbo on our website that I inspected and then called the cops. Please read it for a laugh.


http://www.autoatlanta.com/Life/930story.html

That's supposed to make me laugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) The way I understand it, you took advantage of some a customer that may have unknowingly bought a stolen car, instead of informing him and letting him sort it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I'd sure like to hear his side of the story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Ferg

Well, if the car was a 87, and the guy said he bought it in 84, i doubt he really bought the car.

[G e o r g e]

Another one we did came to us as an original owner six that an insurance company had paid over 12,000 to repair in 1980. It was the rear half of the original owners car complete with door jamb sticker, and the front half of a 1976 model complete with the four cylinder serial numbers! A bastard to say the least. As everyone knows the 76 front half is entirely different than the 70 914-6 and how the repairing body shop (one well known in Atlanta) fit the dash in was pure butchery!
The only solution was to rebody this car into a straight rust free 70,71 chassis, which we did and about $30,000 dollars later, returned him a straight clean one piecer!!!!!!!!

Can you post the Vin of this car so I can stay away from purchasing it in the future

as a matter of fact can I get the vin of every"6" you have "restored" so I can cross them off any want to buy list

Hell how about the 4's as well......How much "rust repair" was done on the Creamsicle restoration?

[Ferg]

There is a funny article about a 911 turbo on our website that I inspected and then called the cops. Please read it for a laugh.


http://www.autoatlanta.com/Life/930story.html

That's supposed to make me laugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) The way I understand it, you took advantage of some a customer that may have unknowingly bought a stolen car, instead of informing him and letting him sort it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I'd sure like to hear his side of the story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Ferg

Well, if the car was a 87, and the guy said he bought it in 84, i doubt he really bought the car.

Article says the car was a 83 euro, at least that's how I read it

[Lavanaut]

Article says the car was a 83 euro, at least that's how I read it

No, that's what the tags said. The car was an '89. I think that's the point ~ the car had been stolen, re-tagged, and sold as an '83. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Ferg]

Article says the car was a 83 euro, at least that's how I read it

No, that's what the tags said. The car was an '89. I think that's the point ~ the car had been stolen, re-tagged, and sold as an '83. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Ah, I reread it for a third time, and get it...

Still would like to hear from George about what happened to the "owner" then...

Ferg

[Rand]

If this tub was worth buying, why was it not worth restoring? I mean, who has more resources to restore it than AA? So if AA is dumping a rusted heap on ebay, it must not be worth it. I just hope the buyer has fun with it.

Lots of people think this is everything from questionable to illegal. I'm not commenting on that, but the best I can take away from it.... Still smells bad enough that I wouldn't want my reputation attached to it. The money gained from this sale will never cover the reputation damage. I just hope the next one goes differently.

[racerx9146]

I totally agree that the customer was taken advantage of..... amazing... the fact they bought the car back for resale is incredible, I can't see how it would not have a salvage title after all that nonsense....

There is a funny article about a 911 turbo on our website that I inspected and then called the cops. Please read it for a laugh.


http://www.autoatlanta.com/Life/930story.html

That's supposed to make me laugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) The way I understand it, you took advantage of some a customer that may have unknowingly bought a stolen car, instead of informing him and letting him sort it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I'd sure like to hear his side of the story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Ferg

[mike_the_man]

There is a funny article about a 911 turbo on our website that I inspected and then called the cops. Please read it for a laugh.


http://www.autoatlanta.com/Life/930story.html

That's supposed to make me laugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) The way I understand it, you took advantage of some a customer that may have unknowingly bought a stolen car, instead of informing him and letting him sort it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I'd sure like to hear his side of the story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Ferg

Well, if the car was a 87, and the guy said he bought it in 84, i doubt he really bought the car.

Article says the car was a 83 euro, at least that's how I read it

I remember coming across this story a few years ago, before I had heard anything about AA. That pretty much told me all I needed to know about AA...

[carr914]

I bought a Real Six in Febuary, that also came with a rust-free 4 cyl donor. The guy was going to do a swap, that I thought then and think now is FRAUD. I'm already spent $10,000 in the restoration and the donor is gone.
George, your attitude is cavilier as usual, I hope that doesn't change when the FBI shows up at your doorstep.

T.C.

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[TROJANMAN]

If this tub was worth buying, why was it not worth restoring? I mean, who has more resources to restore it than AA? So if AA is dumping a rusted heap on ebay, it must not be worth it.

Because it is worth more this way...................

However if you decide to purchase this vehicle, we do have a set of numbers and a good Georgia title for six number 9140430023 that we crushed years and years ago. The high bidder can buy this title and number set for an additional $500.00

PLUS

We can also pack this car with all of the repair parts you need to restore it!

PLUS

Whatever the tub ends up selling for

EQUALS

$$$ for AA


George is a marketing genius........(IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[Dr Evil]

Oh, this is good entertainment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[rhodyguy]

if the current bid holds and they spring for the assorted ids, toss the tub, source a correct year well done conversion, and BANG, insta6 and lots o dough. there will be no foul as the #, title change is legit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) they won't have a correct case or trans anyway...i mean what the hell, it's just a series of #s. right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

k

[Eric_Shea]

He also basically inferred that the practice of swapping VINs was only done in conjunction with a full restoration.

He seems to be inferring a lot.

Let's make this crystal clear. The practice of swapping VIN's is simply not accepted in "any" form of automotive trade. The "intent" is flat out deceit. The FBI calls it "VIN Cloning" and it's at the top of their list currently. The folks at the Barret-Jackson type auction houses simply call it fraud.

There's nothing "noble" about cutting a VIN out of a 914-6 and offering it for sale with a title to any Tom, Dick and Harry over the Internet.

Good God George... why do you do this shit? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)