Group buys = pissed off people??? Options

[Mueller]

It has been brought to my attention that a few people (Direct customers as well as shops-[still a customer]) have taken notice of the group buy that Aaron has put together in order to purchase items directly from Tarett Engineering.

Originally the group buy was for swaybars, then monoballs and next thing we know, NBK's (Needle Bearing Kit's).
From what I read, Ira (owner of Tarett) agreed to offer a pretty good discount on his parts that he himself designed and has manufactured (swaybars and monoballs), this is fine, the problem that has now been created is that pricing for the NBK's has been reduced by 10% per set.

The retail price of the bearings is set at $400.00, there is room in order for the reseller to make a few dollars from selling to the following:
A)a shop that will resell and possibly do the install
B)to a customer directly

Obviously for "A", Ira would have to offer a discount to the shop in order for the shop to make a few dollars off of the sale to his customer. From how I read the group buy thread, Ira has been misinformed on who his "customer" is. If I am correct, a shop is buying all of these parts under the false pretense that they will markup and resell at "retail" pricing.

Now I could be wrong and all that is happening is that Ira has decided to sell the NBK's at a very deep discount since he is making up the difference by selling his "own products" which should yield a much higher profit margin. This is beyond my control.

I know everyone wants a discount, but it's just not going to happen all the time.

So why the pissed off people?

It's due to customers asking why did they have to purchase the NBK's for $400???

Why? In order to justify my time and expense, this "has" to be the price. In order for Ira or Brad to recommend and sell this product, this "has" to be the price, Ira and Brad (and others) have to make some money selling these or it would be a waste of their time and effort. I can raise my price, but I’d rather not. (I am currently $95 per set lower than the competition)

Now I've got to do some serious thinking, it just might be easier to:
1) Sell my remaining stock of parts and give up
2) Sell my prints and supplier list and let someone else deal with it

"1)" would be too easy
"2)" would piss me off if the product caught on fire and was being sold by Performance or some other catalog (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Qarl]

First of all... Mueller, Thank you.

To the whiners out there.... shut the F up. Be thankful for what you have.

Did you ever buy something at an electronics store when it just came out (X-box, PC, DVD player) to find it significantly cheaper 1 month, 3 months or a year later? Or bought something at a store to find it for sale somewhere else cheaper? Similar sort of deal.

Mike isn't making a killing on these kits, so be happy we have people like Mike, James Adams, Bowlsby, etc. who enjoy offering a service or a product that no one else will.

Mike has provided great service and is willing to answer questions and support his products.

I try and support my fellow 914 manufacturing friends whenever I can... you should too!

[ChrisReale]

I don't understand.....who is mad? A shop that has to install bearings that somebody bought at a discount?

[Gint]

I don't know anything about anyone misrepresenting themselves as a shop. In fact, I'm not clear on what the situation is you're referring to. I asked you about buying your roller bearings before I ever asked Aaron to persue it with Tarett as a part of this group buy. You said go ahead and ask (or somethin to that effect) so I did. And in turn, Aaron asked.

(Editor's note - the original sentence here deleted) Brad's going to install them for me anyway, so I'll buy them through him if I have to. I was willing to except a discount if it was available, and I thought it might help the group buy if we were buying more parts.

[Joe Bob]

I ain't mad.....irked. peaved or perturbed....maybe a little strange though.....

[Gint]

Do you know how many times I've bought parts that later came up as a part of a group buy and substantially cheaper?

Get over it.

This post has been edited by Gint: Jan 19 2004, 10:44 PM

[ChrisReale]

What the hell are you all talking about. I just bought a set of bearings for full pop a few weeks ago. Should I be mad? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
F u*k it, I aint mad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_flagge24.gif)

[Mueller]

Hey Gint,

I guess it could happen with any group buy.

I did a group buy once and bought 5 swaybars with my own money. Of course I got a discount which I passed on.
(I could have added a few dollars to the selling price, but decided not to) I sold them privatly since I did not want to publicly mention the price.

I'm with you Gint, if given the chance for a discount, go for it, no reason to throw your money away, but then again, it might be better to pay "retail" to the person doing the install...I don't think a Porsche dealership would be happy with someone bringing in sparkplugs or oil bougth at Kragens for a tune-up done at thier shop (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It's better to be pissed off, than pissed on ; )

[Gint]

I looked at it as an "everybody wins" type of deal. I'll go retract my request.

Oh well. This is just like work. One or two people ruining a good thing for everyone.

[redshift]

WELL I FOR ONE AM PISSED OFF AS FUCKING HELLL BECAUSE OF ALL THE TIME I KEEP WISHING I HAD THOSE FUCKING BEARINGS INSTEAD OF THESE USELESS PIECES OF SHIT I HAVE IN MY CAR AND IT JUST REALLY MAKES ME ANGRY WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT AND GET MAD


M

[Mueller]

Gint,

no reason to bow out of the group buy, Brad isn't really going to care, nor do I........the $80 you'll save can be applied to an hour (??) of labor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[Gint]

S'ok. I don't want you to have to raise prices and I sure don't want shops to have to lose their shorts on parts. Especially since it's probably the small shops that aren't making a fortune to begin with.

I re-read your original post.

Now I've got to do some serious thinking, it just might be easier to:
1) Sell my remaining stock of parts and give up
2) Sell my prints and supplier list and let someone else deal with it

"1)" would be too easy
"2)" would piss me off if the product caught on fire and was being sold by Performance or some other catalog

So someone else can sell them and raise the retail price anyway? Don't do it Mike. I assume you sell them to Tarett for a price. Then they mark them up, right? Why would this cause you to bail on the whole thing? I'm extremely happy to see guys like you 'building a better mousetrap' for 914s. I want to support you in any way I can. If that means not accepting a discount for something that is already at a great price, then so be it. I'll let Brad make some money on the deal.

This post has been edited by Gint: Jan 19 2004, 11:11 PM

[Korijo]

Mueller,

I still want a full set, remember ? Send me a PM...

[airsix]

Mueller,
Life is too short to let a few whiners spoil your mood. You put a lot of time and effort into designing a product. You spent a lot of time and effort sourcing matterials. You spent a lot of time tooling up and building prototypes. You spent a lot of time and effort establishing a supply chain, partnering with a retailer, promoting your product, and doing PR. It is reasonable to expect that early addopters will absorb more of the development costs than those who come later. It is also very reasonable to accept that you may choose to charge less per-unit for large orders due to ecomomies of scale.

Life is too short for you to waste time feeling bad because you catch some flak from "people who don't get it". Ignore them. They don't get it and you don't have time to educate them. For anyone out there who's peeved because they paid $40 more than the group-buy crowd: Think about how many hundreds of hours Mike has put into this project, the cost of matterials, and the cost of machinery. If he sells 5,000 sets of bearings he'll probably only have made $7/hr for all his time. What do you charge for your time? My biggest peeve is people with no respect for other people's time. They want you to put in the time and effort and get pissy when you set the price. If they don't like the price let them put in the time and effort themselves!

Rant over.

-Ben M.

[Targa]

Hey Mike,

I would like to get the needle bearing kit for my car eventually. I am wondering if you plan on coming up with a solution to annual maintenence/lubrication other than having to remove them which is what I understand should be done once a year? Thanks,

Varik

[ChrisReale]

I have been told that boat trailer grease keeps it lubed for a long time. As in no maintenence necessary

[Aaron Cox]

Hey guys,
I was approached with discounts on tarret bars. it was mentioned that i could get products from tarret and sanders for discount prices. Gint asked me to look into rollerbearings, 360 for a set was the price i was quoted. I'm not buying any, im just passing along the price quote that was given to me. I understand mike's hard work designing this, and im sorry that the group buy undercut somepeoples prices.

lemme know what you want me to do mike, theyre youre design.

Aaron

[Mueller]

[QUOTE] im sorry that the group buy undercut somepeoples prices. /QUOTE]

don't be, that is the purpose of doing the group buy....I think what has happened is that some people just read into it wrong........Like I said earlier, I too did a group buy to save money, but I bought all of the same parts, with your group buy, it seems to have become somewhat cloudy due to the different items being purchased.

I plan on talking to Ira personally to sort this out so that in the future, we don't end up pissing off each other (that'll be darn near impossible, LOL)

[ss6]

Hey Mike, ditto on "f--- the whiners". Entrepreneurs like you make our economy the envy of the planet. There will always be whiners, sometimes they'll even provide useful feedback, but "don't let the bastards get you down". Just one of the pains of doing business, kinda like taxes.

[Aaron Cox]

mike, i guess i should have called the thread "tarret products group buy". one of Ira's underlings set up this deal with me, and is selling these bearings at what he gets them for (my understanding). I believe this is the problem. I have talked with Ira, he said this will be the only group buy, and he will speak with his underling.

hope that made sense (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)