CHP gives cliff a smog ticket for his teener Options

[ericread]

the state doesn't care if the stuff is NLA or not. If it was an FI car at birth, then it is till supposed to be an FI car. and in CA the early cars did have stuff that was considered smog related. various parts of the FI on type IVs were there for smog.
blow by recirculation, cold start valves, hot start valves all had something to do with not only driveability but also emissions.
Even my stock motored 1967 Bug had a smog device or two, and when we still had to have it smogged, those pieces had to be there.
Remember California was requiring smog equipment on cars before the rest of the nation was, back in '66 and '67.

I believe that for truely NLA items, if the owner took reasonable and prudent steps to ensure the emissions were minimized, you would have a good opportunity to get state certification with non-original SMOG hardware. It might not pass on the initial inspection, but at the appeal level the intent of the law would certainly be in play. The key to this is that the owner has taken reasonable steps to ensure compliance iwth emission standards, and that the car when tested was not in gross non-compliance.

My $.02.

[Wes V]

I think this string got way off topic (but covered some usefull information).

Judging by the violation that Cliff was written up for, it sounds like the officer feels he changed the engine configuration in some manner.

Is it a stock, but tired engine?

Is it a big bore? Has the cam been changed?

You 914 guys have no idea what kind of shit Honda owners have been put through by the police. (using an aftermarket fuel rail on a Honda is a common bust due to the fact that none of them have EO numbers)

Wes

[DanT]

what has or hasn't been changed on his car is probably irrelevant to this discussion. He was pulled over because of several things but the most prominent was the smoke from the tail pipe.
the car also has a HUGE whale tale on it, lots of primer and the rear fenders have been crudely cut out to accept larger wheels and tires that stick out beyond the current fender contours.

He is also very young, and I have seen first hand when officers pull over young ones just to see what they are doing.

My wife and I were following my son and youngest daughter one Friday early afternoon.
He and my daughter were in his GTI and we were following in ours.
A SJPD comes up from behind and gets along side my son. Closely checks the back and front of his car. (looking for tags and to see if he had a front license plate on). Finally after about a 1/2 of a mile he pulls him over. So I pull in behind the cop.
He goes up and asked what my son and daughter are doing....my son tells him and then the cop asks why they aren't in school....well is was a teacher in service day, and they didn't have school. so since he wasn't getting any satisfaction with them, he comes back and starts on me. Asks what I am doing, so I ask him what he is doing pulling over my son and daughter for no reason....
Now he gets real quiet and mumbles something about truancy, I said maybe the PD should alert the officers when the kids are legally out of school...etc.
He didn't like this very much, but there was nothing he could do about it....we went on our way.
the moral of the story is, if you are a kid driving a car, the cops are just looking for something to pull you over for. And once they get you there, they are really going to look hard for something to write you up for....especially if your car has an issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Joe Bob]

An electric car when re-registered after conversion will have that fact stamped on the Pink Slip and the registration. Zero Emissions cars have there own string of rules in the CVC. INCLUDING smog check exemption even if they are newer vehicles...

Back on topic....WHAT reg was the guy written up under? Can you scan the the ticket....blank out your personal stuff...

[Chris Hamilton]

The ticket says he was written up under VC 27156, section b. I don't have a scan of the ticket, maybe cliff can post that.

Dan, I totally agree that the car was asking for trouble, but my v8 wasn't any more subtle, it's just a really nice looking and sounding car so I think it doesn't attract as much attention ( assuming you never step on the gas, ever ).

[DanT]

exactly Chris....

[SirAndy]

the car also has a HUGE whale tale on it, lots of primer and the rear fenders have been crudely cut out to accept larger wheels and tires that stick out beyond the current fender contours.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

[SLITS]

27156. (a) No person shall operate or leave standing upon ( )1 a highway ( )2 a motor vehicle that is a gross polluter, as defined in Section 39032.5 of the Health and Safety Code.

{B} No person shall operate or leave standing upon ( )1 a highway ( )2 a motor vehicle that is required to be equipped with a motor vehicle pollution control device under Part 5 (commencing with Section 43000) of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code or any other certified motor vehicle pollution control device required by any other state law or any rule or regulation adopted pursuant to that law, or required to be equipped with a motor vehicle pollution control device pursuant to the National Emission Standards Act (42 U.S.C. ( )3 7521 to 7550, inclusive) and the standards and regulations adopted pursuant to that federal act, unless the motor vehicle is equipped with the required motor vehicle pollution control device ( )4 that is correctly installed and in operating condition. No person shall disconnect, modify, or alter any such required device.

[Joe Bob]

Plenty of exemptions to that standard.....I have a 2006 that's totally exempt. Runs a Type I VW motor, turbo and aftermarket FI.....I don't know or care what it blows out the tail pipe....

[Chris Hamilton]

the car also has a HUGE whale tale on it, lots of primer and the rear fenders have been crudely cut out to accept larger wheels and tires that stick out beyond the current fender contours.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

(IMG:http://www.thextremeresources.com/boshi/images/cars/15k914.jpg)

[ericread]

the car also has a HUGE whale tale on it, lots of primer and the rear fenders have been crudely cut out to accept larger wheels and tires that stick out beyond the current fender contours.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

(IMG:http://www.thextremeresources.com/boshi/images/cars/15k914.jpg)

WOW! Why not just print "COP BAIT" on the sides???

[Joe Bob]

Or "free donuts".....

[Wes V]

Now why would the cop think the engine may be modified?

Wes

[rick 918-S]

Can anyone tell me what "polution control device" is on a 1971 California 914? Or what "pollution control device is connected to the stock FI? (the fuel delivery device) What exactly is the part the cop feels he removed? Needing to give the car a tune up or lean out the carbs to clear up the smoke is do-able. But I think if you pick apart the intent of the section cited you may be able to beat that one.

[JeffBowlsby]

All 914s at least had the charcoal filter and piping. The PCV valve and decel valves began on 1972 and later cars as far as I can tell. Anyone know anything different?

[DanT]

his car certainly didn't come stock with dual carbs, regardless of year, in California.

[CliffBraun]

Okay, here's an update for everyone, I've got an appointment with a referee to go fail at 2:10 pm. Interestingly enough, their locations and phone number has got to be a matter of national security or something because they WILL NOT give you the address or phone without making an appointment (in your name, etc etc).
I'm going to go there, talk with the guy about it. There is an exemption to the every two year smogs for something not being available. I phoned the four BAR recommended parts places and got three responses. "What? they had EFI in 1971?" "I've done it before, it costs more than the car is worth, fuck off, I have people who are going to spend money," and "we can probably find you most of the parts, but not all of them."
I then phoned someone in the porsche business who said it's impossible to get the manifold pressure sensor and ECU anymore. I am going to see if the referee will buy that argument and re-certify it.
I've been considering converting the vehicle to run on methanol. One would think that C.A.R.B would be supportive of this, but it is illegal (unless you're a company and have lots of money) to do such a thing. I've been on the phone with CARB about this but the lady who deals with modifications is out until tomorrow. I'm going to play up the alternative fuel angle as I'm a student and can probably get some sort of credit for converting it. I will also talk to her about what to do in the situation of most of us, where the EFI sucks so much that we replaced it with a system that has the potential to be just as, or even cleaner. This is especially worrying for older vehicles as no manufacturer has the incentive to spend $100k on getting their product approved.
So I've contacted BAR, CARB, and the referee scheduling people. I'll be finding a solution, I just hope I don't run out of minutes first.

[SirAndy]

a used 1.7L with all injection parts can be had for $500 or less.

or call EASY in emeryville for prices for FI parts, they'll have everything you need ...

or borrow a running 1.7L motor from a friend ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[CliffBraun]

Blah.

Went to the referee station, sans car, to speak with the guy. I had to make an appointment (which I cancelled shortly afterwords) to be given the address of the place. I had a conversation with the guy, he ended up getting kinda interested in the problem but his advice was to either find the equipment to put on or just pay the ticket.

The second one doesn't really work because I'd never be able to register the vehicle in CA again and driving it would be quite risky. I found several other options in the form of trying to get an exemption 'cause the EFI isn't available, as none of the BAR sources for parts had it, I'm probably going to be turned down on this, but it'll be nice to have a definitive answer.

Markb got in touch with me through my corresponding WTB/R posting in the classified forums and it looks as though we will be swapping his old 1.7 EFI engine into my vehicle in order to bring it into compliance. I have been planning to rebuild my current engine and paint my car all along so the problem shouldn't happen again.

It certainly could happen to anyone who ends up with an overzealous CHP officer, kinda weird to be in a state of perpetual illegality. Not that this car isn't more of a target than most, I'm just surprised he missed the rest of the illegal things on the car!

[grantsfo]

Grant, lets see that video!

Sorry its not the best quality but there are still a few good sounds. I would love a car like yours one day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Xy_gw3Fvw