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> Battery tray replacement gone wrong, Really bad attempt - removed by hand!
IronHillRestorations
post Jun 24 2008, 09:44 PM
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Here's some pics of a battery tray that I pulled out of a car today, BY HAND!!! I didn't use a chisel or even a screw driver to pull the tray off. I just kept pulling and twisting, and it broke free without a struggle. None of the weld beads had any penetration. I broke all the welds off with only a vice grips and a little twist. I don't believe the guy (who shouldn't be allowed near a 914 with a welder) even clamped the tray and stand as he tried to weld. I think the guy tried to learn how to weld and install a battery tray in this 914 at the same time, and didn't do either one. I say he got the welder out of the box and start touching the car with it first thing, without a bit of practice.

Here's the weld along the back of the tray, against the right engine bay wall.

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Here's the underside of the tray/stand, and the alledged welds.

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IronHillRestorations
post Jun 24 2008, 09:58 PM
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Here's the tray pulled away from the engine bay wall.
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Here's the stand without the tray.
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Metal boogers
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Boogers on the battery tray
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Tray and weld beads
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IronHillRestorations
post Jun 24 2008, 10:09 PM
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Here's the tray with all the welds popped off
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Fortunately it all came off clean, and the tray is in great shape
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The stand is still useable too
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The wall needs some attention, but at least the Bozo didn't cause too much harm.
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And here's his attempt at repairing the right hinge cup
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Bleyseng
post Jun 24 2008, 10:28 PM
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I like the screws holding the trunk hinge! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/KMA.gif)
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Andyrew
post Jun 25 2008, 12:47 AM
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Chicago freight wire feed...

damn... that looks terrible.
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URY914
post Jun 25 2008, 07:23 AM
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Was the gas on?

Your tip of the welder needs to be closer to the work.

Wire feed speed? Power level?
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Root_Werks
post Jun 25 2008, 08:04 AM
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Be glad you got most everything out and looks like even cleaned up without too much struggle. Now you can go back and do it right.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)
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r_towle
post Jun 25 2008, 08:16 AM
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post some pics of how you fixed it.

Rich
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dflesburg
post Jun 25 2008, 08:16 AM
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dont make fun of my welding!!!
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IronHillRestorations
post Jun 25 2008, 08:45 AM
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Please make no mistake, I'm doing repairs on this car, THOSE AREN'T MY WELDS!!! This is a car I'm working on for a customer. I think the guy he got the car from fancies himself a home restorer, and there's so many things that are just wrong. I think he could have stuck the tray on better with glue.
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Bleyseng
post Jun 25 2008, 08:49 AM
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pop rivets are nice too !
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nsr-jamie
post Jun 25 2008, 08:57 AM
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Don't laugh too hard, we all had to start somewhere...I think my first welding experience ended up something close to that...still I wouldn't want the beginner or apprentice welder to lose all his confindence or face by laughing at him like that in front of everyone, but that is just me....though sometimes depending on the case it may not hurt or may even help to get the persons welding skills, confidence or technical levels up...anyways those parts are still useable, a couple of minutes of grinding them down and you are ready to go. Cheers
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So.Cal.914
post Jun 25 2008, 09:02 AM
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I am sure he wondered why he could not maintain a bead, more amps would have helped.
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IronHillRestorations
post Jun 25 2008, 09:02 AM
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Point taken Jamie, but all it takes is PRACTICE. Too many guys get impatient and want to start welding on the car right away, when an hour or so getting used to the actual process, and then trying to rip the welds apart.

These welds were on the same level as caulk, except that the caulk would have stuck better.
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r_towle
post Jun 25 2008, 11:22 AM
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QUOTE(9146986 @ Jun 25 2008, 11:02 AM) *

Point taken Jamie, but all it takes is PRACTICE. Too many guys get impatient and want to start welding on the car right away, when an hour or so getting used to the actual process, and then trying to rip the welds apart.

These welds were on the same level as caulk, except that the caulk would have stuck better.


Personally I have never found a decent way (looks good and is structural) to weld that tray in place.
I think this time (I am replacing one right now for a client) that I will remove the battery hold down lip on the back and plug weld it into the fender...the plug weld the hold down back on...

Two spot welds on the outer edge just dont cut it over time...
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brer
post Jun 25 2008, 11:44 AM
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at least you dont have to order new replacement tray???

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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davesclassicvws
post Jun 25 2008, 01:21 PM
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QUOTE(9146986 @ Jun 25 2008, 08:02 AM) *

Point taken Jamie, but all it takes is PRACTICE. Too many guys get impatient and want to start welding on the car right away, when an hour or so getting used to the actual process, and then trying to rip the welds apart.

These welds were on the same level as caulk, except that the caulk would have stuck better.


I know exactly what happened because I've done it myself. He has the polarity set wrong on his welder. If you are using gas the polarity is set one way and if you are using flux core only and no gas the polarity is the opposite. The welder still works but if the polarity is wrong there is no penetration.
Like I said I know this from experience, but I have caught it way earlier than trying to complete a job.
Good thing it wasn't the floor pan. Can you imagine going down the road and your passenger disappears. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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IronHillRestorations
post Jun 25 2008, 03:33 PM
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I drill holes in the tray for plug welds to the stand flange, make the two overlap welds where the ends of the tray butt the wall, and then fillet welds between the wall and the tray, along that rear lip. I'll post pics of the install, but it will be about ten days before I get back in the shop.
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bandjoey
post Jun 25 2008, 07:07 PM
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Well, it looks like he does have blow through in control! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
Yes, I'd like to see you finished install Thanks for the process.
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rtperch
post Jun 26 2008, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE(9146986 @ Jun 25 2008, 08:45 AM) *

Please make no mistake, I'm doing repairs on this car, THOSE AREN'T MY WELDS!!! This is a car I'm working on for a customer. I think the guy he got the car from fancies himself a home restorer, and there's so many things that are just wrong. I think he could have stuck the tray on better with glue.


I'm the car's owner!

The "mechanic" (I have to use that word very loosely here) that did the initial welding actually owns and operates his own commercial antique auto maintanence and restoration shop as a business--not as a hobby or a moonlighting job on the side. I also learned--too late--that he's infamous locally for his abysmal workmanship/ethics. The car ran worse when I picked it up than when I dropped it off, but I'm probably lucky to have gotten the car back at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

Perry's been doing an excellent job though, is extremely knowledgeable/ethical, is obviously very passionate about 914s, a big stickler for details and quality workmanship, and is in every way the complete opposite of that particular scoundrel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
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