V8 Guys? Overheating issues- Ordered Renegades complete radiator setup, Also considering an LS1 swap down the road Options

[JRust]

So my buick 215 is getting to hot. I wasn't sure how accurate my gage was. On my way home from Parts obsolete swap meet on sunday it was in the mid 90's. My engine temp got up to 230 but seemed to be doing okay. Then it started cutting out on me. I pulled over to let it cool a it. After a good half hour I drove the rest of the way home. Engine temps were still close to 230 though. I have an old school setup I think.

My question is what radiator setup are you using? Also what engine temps are usual for you? Just trying to see which way to go. I'd like to make it better without forking out another grand for renegades new setup right now. Suggestions please!

[wbergtho]

When you build a V-8 car, one of the most critical components is the radiator. Although I know Renegade's radiator is a cool thou...I've heard it is quite good. I had a 3 core dual pass custom Fluidyne in my car for about 4 years until it gave up the ghost and started leaking (maybe stress from racing). I really liked that radiator because it kept my motor at 175 degrees on the run and no more than 185-190 in rush hour traffic on a 95 degree humid summer day! I couldn't get Fluidyne to make me another one because they quit making custom radiators so I had Howe Racing make me a 2 core dual pass radiator. It keeps the engine at 178 degrees on the run and 185-195 in rush hour traffic (hot day). My suggestion is to spend whatever money is necessary due to the fact that the radiator is such a key component on a water cooled 914. You have over 20' of hoses and a water pump that was never designed to throw water that far. If you have a weak sister radiator...you will curse yourself a thousand times! A thousand times for every dollar you didn't spend on the proper set up. If you want to fabricate your own fan set up and mounting set up as I did, You can save a few hundred dollars by having a reputable place make you a custom radiator to fit perfectly between your headlight buckets. PM me for more details and good luck with your car! Kudos for building a car with a light weight all aluminum V-8!!!

Bill

[Andyrew]

Post pictures of lines, water pump, overflow tank, radiator, inlet/outlet, ext.

The only way for us to determine.

[JRust]

Post pictures of lines, water pump, overflow tank, radiator, inlet/outlet, ext.

The only way for us to determine.

I"ll get some pics tommorow! Thanks

[LvSteveH]

If you're hitting 230 degrees driving in the mid 90's something isn't right and I'd rule out everything else out before replacing the radiator. As Bill said, cooling a V8 in a 914 can be tricky because of the limited frontal area and long hoses.

You need to check for air in the system, timing being way off, and for a lack of airflow. It's also worth checking to make sure the overflow system is working properly. I was running a potent 350 V8 with the old style Renegade system and it did surprisingly well even here in Vegas. I did get it up to 230 once, but I was stuck in traffic and it was close to 120 at the time.

The newer all aluminum Renegade system is really efficient and has two high flow fans. It's a complete system with shrouding, relays, etc. It isn't cheap at just under a grand, but you'd spend quite a bit trying to duplicate it. One way or another you definitely want to get it taken care of before you cook the motor. An ounce of prevention.....

[Joe Bob]

Air in the lines, coolant mix not right, high spot that gives you an air bubble....lots of places to look at before going to another radiator. I think Renegade has a trouble shooting guide on their site.

[TC 914-8]

I noticed the same thing on Saturday, it was close to 90 deg ambient and my car which never rises above 200 jumped to 225 in town slow traffic. It seemed to hold at 225 and the radiator did its job, once I hit the highway it dropped to its normal 200.
I did not bild the car but it has a Rod Simpson kit with a 4 core dual pass aluminum radiator, I think thats what they call it. Rod still has a web site up, with a tech line for questions and advice. I am suprised with a 1 1/4 supply and a 1in return it moves enough coolant to remove the required BTU's, it works though.
I did biuld a V-6 914 many years ago on a buget and tried several junk yard type radiators. I was finally able to keep it cool in the LA heat with an all copper 4 core radiator I bartered for, that came out of a super sport stock car, sorry no help on that one. The radiator fit between the headlight buckets and layed on an angle so the bottom was close to the back wall of the front trunk, basicaly it was big and Heavy. It also had a tight shroud with an electric fan that moved a but load of air.
It is also important to have a expansion tan at the highs point to catch any ait pockets along with a solid overflow and catch tank
I will be at the WCR in two weeks you can pick everyones brain there.

Good luck

Tony

[wbergtho]

You need to check for air in the system, timing being way off, and for a lack of airflow.

Steve and the Dr. are right. Please check all the cooling components and their functionality before jumping the gun and buying a new radiator. I have noticed on my set up that the fans are working more often than not... I'll notice they are are on and running at freeway speeds on occasion. I have done many hours of testing and learning through trial and error. One thing I have noticed is if I let the car sit and idle w/out the fans hooked up...my engine will overheat and blow the cap off my overflow tank spewing coolant everywhere. This will happen within 8-10 minutes of idling. With the fans hooked up, the car can idle until the gas runs out of the tank at 185-190 degrees on a 90 + degree day. Those fans need to work and be designed to move a lot of CFM. Also, air in the lines can be troublesome in a car with 20' of coolant lines. Renegade told me they drill a small 1/8" hole in the thermostat housing to allow coolant to bypass the closed thermostat when filling. Also, a breather on the radiator is a very good idea. I even back fill through the breather when I'm filling a dry system. I would bleed the system first, check the coolant mixture, then check the condition of the water pump and lines, then think about replacing the radiator...in that order. If you find the radiator to be your problem, buy a good one and be done.

Hope this helps,

Bill

[rick 918-S]

I agree, if it was working before, what changed? Check for air in the system.

Mine runs too cool on the freeway 160-170 like Bills car. I did get to 240 once when we were traveling to the WCC and got stuck in construction traffic in the dessert between Vegas and Cali. But As soon as we could roll 10 mph the temp would drop.

Oh, and a spike in temp isn't always going to cause you to over heat. If you don't loss coolant your probably ok. I would check for air in the system.

[germanv82000]

Air bubbles have historically been my only problem using a mix of conversion parts.

[JRust]

I will flush the system & check my water pump. My timing is off a little too so I've got to do that too. I'm going to take it to my buddy's shop so I can make sure I get it right. I don't even own a timing light anymore.

I can't really gage if this was overheating before. I've only had it 4 months. Most of which was spent in the air. Clutch was slipping badly so I really didn't drive it much before. Actually I just redid my clutch & it is still slipping. I bought a kennedy stage 2 PP with the 200mm clutch. Still slips under much of a load. I'm wondering if I have some oil leak that is getting in there? Or is my pressure plate just not strong enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .

I do have all of next week off to get it ready for WCR. SO I should be able to get it all ironed out. I will be trailering it the 4+ hours up there anyway. I've got some parts to haul & I definately don't trust it to make the whole trip.

[michaelt55]

Air in the system is a big issue for these cars. Also..if the thermastat has not been changed after it sat for a while...change it.....Mine was over heating and I changed the thermastat and the radiator cap, burped it..no issues..

Michael

[JRust]

Here are a few pics of the setup. Shoot I think I replaced a thermostat in high school once? I can't even remember where the dang thing sits in the system. I'm hoping my buddy with the shop isn't taking next week off. That will screw with my plan no doubt. I'll have to bone up on flushing my radiator if I have to do it myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[michaelt55]

man...is that radiator pointed down and where the AC condensor used to be?? If thats the case, you need some CFM to cool that baby down.....especially where I live from all the radiated heat off the asphalt!

Also any better pics of your overflow setup? The thermastat should set in the housing of the elbow where your radiator hose enters the block...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Michael

[JRust]

It is angled down for sure. It basicaly starts under the bumper. Just the valance is cut. I definatley want to get a better radiator setup. Just not enought time before WCR. I'd like to get it servicable for all the drives. I can replace the whole setup later. Don't have the cash to do a complete new setup right now anyway.

[Andyrew]

Errr.. ouch...

I hate to say it, but your best option is to change to a proven setup like Rennegade's.

That setup is not the best way to go about it. When the air temps are at 100 deg the cement in bumper to bumper will be like 120 or so and the radiator is pulling from that extreme heat situation. You also dont have optimum flow at speeds either as the air will take the least difficult way around.

Best advice I can give is to do a system flush, check for lean running of carbs, check spark plug gaps and timing, move your fill tank higher, and save your pennies.


You should also switch to a puller fan VS a pusher fan so that the physical fan does not block the airflow either. Maybe run a small pusher as a backup for bumper to bumper. Also add a can of Water Wetter by redline, dont run antifreeze (its less efficient than pure water), and run a higher pressure cap(19lbs?). Oh and change your oil to a synthetic with a good filter (mobil 1 is good)

What does the front look like? May need to add some kind of air grabber to force the air under the car..

Less stress you put on the engine the smoother and cooler it will run.... Ask Jake Raby...


Good luck!

[marks914]

Here is a good way to figure out if its your radiator. The shop that built mine told me this. He said its not steadfast, but as a general rule, if it does not get hot in traffic, its probably the right size, if it gets hot when you are on the freeway its probably an airflow issue. If the temp creeps up over time on the freeway its probably a size/effectiveness issue of the radiator.

Here is my setup, cost me $275 plus the fans.

Since it looks like you are pulling exclusively from the bottom, you are depending solely on the fan for airflow, even on the freeway. The air needs to come from the front to create the proper pressure drop across the radiator, a ram air effect. Without shrouding on the fan, the corners are not being cooled by the fan either.

(IMG:http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/5682/2033403670057582025S600x600Q85.jpg)

[JRust]

I know my timing is off some. Wouldn't be surprised if my carb is not quite up to snuff either. I will start with flushing my radiator & replacing the thermostat. Assuming my water pump is god I will move onto timing & checking my carb out. I will definately be replacing my current setup eventually. I think I will end up with Renegades newest setup. It's a proven system & I am just not that confident in my ability to customize a setup. I'll see what my buddy with the shop says. I'll show him some current setups & we'll see what he thinks. I will definately show him this link.

Kind of strange on Renegades site I can't find their radiator setup at all???

[computers4kids]

I know my timing is off some. Wouldn't be surprised if my carb is not quite up to snuff either. I will start with flushing my radiator & replacing the thermostat. Assuming my water pump is god I will move onto timing & checking my carb out. I will definately be replacing my current setup eventually. I think I will end up with Renegades newest setup. It's a proven system & I am just not that confident in my ability to customize a setup. I'll see what my buddy with the shop says. I'll show him some current setups & we'll see what he thinks. I will definately show him this link.

Kind of strange on Renegades site I can't find their radiator setup at all???

COOLING SYSTEM
Renegade offers an excellent, custom made, cooling system. This system is very complete system and ready to install. Typical normal operating temperatures will stay well below 200 degrees even in Vegas Corvallis (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) type heat.

$995 CUSTOM ALUMINUM RADIATOR ASSEMBLY: Installs in front trunk compartment. Includes a custom built, all aluminum radiator, high performance dual fan assembly with shrouding, pre-bent aluminum duct work, and all mounting hardware; partially assembled and pre-wired for ease of installation. Our radiator has proven itself as an excellent performer, even in extreme weather conditions. Properly installed, this radiator will keep your car running cool (180 - 210 deg.) guaranteed! If you have a radiator system from one of our competitors, this is a great cure and replacement. ( pictures )

[boxstr]

Anytime anyone gets a 914 V8 or V6 or?? and they experience overheating problems in the summer months, the radiator setup we see is very very similar to the one Jamie is running.
The first post is from someone with V8 experience is"get a Renegade setup" . And it is probably the single best purchase you can make for your V8 914.
Check your thermostat to be sure you don't have a winter temp one in place. ANd you might want to get a direct thermostat housing temp gauge. It is built into the thermo housing itself and you can get a direct reading.
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