V8 Guys? Overheating issues- Ordered Renegades complete radiator setup, Also considering an LS1 swap down the road Options

[michaelt55]

This seems to work well for me...its easy to modify to.... the fans run either single or in tandem....I have no problems...EXCEPT when I have air in the system...

[marks914]

Yours breathes from the front, the other one seems to be exclusively from the bottom

Mark

[JRust]

Was there a particular radiator you got? Or did you just measure between the headlight buuckets? If there is a certain car that has just the right one I might try to get it. I'm sure I could get a little better setup for WCR. My buddy's shop is right next to a junk yard. I do want a dual fan system with the fans on the inside pulling the air thru. I kind of hate to cut up a nice front bumper for it though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I've got Mark(computer4kids) coming up for WCR & staying at my place. He just did his bumper & it turned out nice. So maybe with his help I will cut out the section in the bumper (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) . What did you guys use to do yours? Plasma cutter?

One other question. My buick 215 v8 comes thru my firewall quite a bit. Would running an electric water pump save me much room up front? Also are they very effective?

[computers4kids]

Jamie,
a plasma cutter would be nice since they would literally cut the bumper like butter, but not necessary. If you decide to cut your bumper, it can be done with some real simple tools.

Masking tape and tape measure to create the shape you want...the tape makes for a nice guide when cutting as well.

If you want rounded corners, then a drill with a metal hole saw.

A jigsaw with a couple of metal fine tooth blades (may break one).

File to smooth all the cuts

If you want a grill, then pick one up at the junkyard that you like. It will need to be somewhat flexible to curve to the inside of the bumper.

Alternatively, pickup a piece of metal grill like the one I used from Orchard Hardware ($25). I used a cutting tool (air) to cut to size and then tack welded on the inside of the bumper.

I would be glad to bring any of these items or tools up if you need them...just let met know. Do you have an air compressor? Welder?

If I had a bumper close, I would do all the work here and just bring it to you. My roller's front bumper is tweaked, not worth the effort. We have a junkyard in town but they think their stuff is gold...don't even know if they have one.

Depending on your tools, a couple hours and you should be ready to roll.

[JRust]

Jamie,
a plasma cutter would be nice since they would literally cut the bumper like butter, but not necessary. If you decide to cut your bumper, it can be done with some real simple tools.

Masking tape and tape measure to create the shape you want...the tape makes for a nice guide when cutting as well.

If you want rounded corners, then a drill with a metal hole saw.

A jigsaw with a couple of metal fine tooth blades (may break one).

File to smooth all the cuts

If you want a grill, then pick one up at the junkyard that you like. It will need to be somewhat flexible to curve to the inside of the bumper.

Alternatively, pickup a piece of metal grill like the one I used from Orchard Hardware ($25). I used a cutting tool (air) to cut to size and then tack welded on the inside of the bumper.

I would be glad to bring any of these items or tools up if you need them...just let met know. Do you have an air compressor? Welder?

If I had a bumper close, I would do all the work here and just bring it to you. My roller's front bumper is tweaked, not worth the effort. We have a junkyard in town but they think their stuff is gold...don't even know if they have one.

Depending on your tools, a couple hours and you should be ready to roll.

I do have an air compressor but no welder or plasma. Although I can borrow both from a guy I work with. I kick myself at times like this for leaving those 3 bumpers down at G & R for recycling. I may try to track an extra down at parts obsolete today. Depends on how things go with my car at the shop?

[michaelt55]

Was there a particular radiator you got? Or did you just measure between the headlight buuckets? If there is a certain car that has just the right one I might try to get it. I'm sure I could get a little better setup for WCR. My buddy's shop is right next to a junk yard. I do want a dual fan system with the fans on the inside pulling the air thru. I kind of hate to cut up a nice front bumper for it though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I've got Mark(computer4kids) coming up for WCR & staying at my place. He just did his bumper & it turned out nice. So maybe with his help I will cut out the section in the bumper (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) . What did you guys use to do yours? Plasma cutter?

One other question. My buick 215 v8 comes thru my firewall quite a bit. Would running an electric water pump save me much room up front? Also are they very effective?

My engine doesn't protrude as far as yours into the cabin. I have a small cut out for the front pulley and thats it. I have an electric fuel pump and I have my altenator on the opposite side. Not sure why yours goes so far into the cab. No particular radiator, PO just measured and set it up. I have just adjusted the thermastat for the fans.

[byndbad914]

...My buick 215 v8 comes thru my firewall quite a bit. Would running an electric water pump save me much room up front? Also are they very effective?

It saves the room that pump sticks forward, minus the length of some elbows you will have to incorporate with the timing cover. I have a Meziere remote mount 55gpm water pump and it works fine.

http://www.meziere.com/ps-1150-1118-wp337s.aspx

holy crap, they have rocketed in price! Anyway, you want the higher flow and don't want the 30-33gpm pumps like CSI and so forth. Understand that the stock water pump will flow a small amount at idle but a fair amount at higher rpm.

And that thing protrudes a LOT. Many of the V8 kits set the trans back a bit or have a custom trans mount or adapter to move it back a couple inches. I suspect they installed that at stock trans location...

[JRust]

...My buick 215 v8 comes thru my firewall quite a bit. Would running an electric water pump save me much room up front? Also are they very effective?

It saves the room that pump sticks forward, minus the length of some elbows you will have to incorporate with the timing cover. I have a Meziere remote mount 55gpm water pump and it works fine.

http://www.meziere.com/ps-1150-1118-wp337s.aspx

holy crap, they have rocketed in price! Anyway, you want the higher flow and don't want the 30-33gpm pumps like CSI and so forth. Understand that the stock water pump will flow a small amount at idle but a fair amount at higher rpm.

And that thing protrudes a LOT. Many of the V8 kits set the trans back a bit or have a custom trans mount or adapter to move it back a couple inches. I suspect they installed that at stock trans location...

The transmision is in the stock location. I may look into moving it back a bit. I would really like to get the firewall back to stock if possible. I'll be doing some research on that & the different electric water pumps available. I am going to look into some radiators tommorow. I did get my car timed today & it was advanced a good 5degrees. It did better once I had my car tuned but still creeped up to 220 eventually.

[computers4kids]

Jamie,
I can't remember...
Is the gauge that you are using...do you think it's accurate. Electric or mechanical? I'll bring by laser temp gauge so we are sure of the temps both at the engine and radiator.

Well, we're packed and ready to head your way in the AM. Will probably be seeing you by noon on Wednesday...but who knows--I'm traveling with my sister in law and wife. Sister in law likes to drive 90 and my wife likes 60 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

[JRust]

Sweet! I was going to have you measure your radiator. If you happen to get on tonight or in the morning before you leave. Measure it for me & give me a call. I am going to go by a racing place tommorow to see what they have available. Also my car does not have a themostat on the engine at all. Not sure where my gage is getting te temp? Cylinder head temp maybe?

If I don't have luck with finding a radiator I am going to at least get mine set more upright & add the cuts in the front to allow more air to come thru

[computers4kids]

Some dimensions to think about

[byndbad914]

If I don't have luck with finding a radiator I am going to at least get mine set more upright & add the cuts in the front to allow more air to come thru

J - I dunno your budget and skill level, so bear with me here, but maybe check out Ron Davis or sincerely consider the Renegade radiator kit mentioned before.

Ron Davis makes the Renegade radiators but won't specifically sell it to you direct. That said, RD makes a bunch of off-the-shelf dual pass rads and will have one that should fit IIRC. Get the tallest one you can fit IMO and lay it forward - dual pass, 2-core 1" capillary minimum. RD will set you back about $850 for a good dual pass with integrated fan shrouds and dual fans. Then you will want to fab up some sheet alum to seal off the radiator to your inlet hole. That is the question of fab cuz I believe the Renegade kit is right at $1K and has all of that pre-made and ready to install, so it really is a pretty slick kit.

Griffin are good, cheaper rads but I can't remember if they have a short enough rad to fit, even laid forward, in the width you will be limited to, but if they have something in the 16" height range or less, it will be cheaper than RD BUT will not have a shroud and fans, which gets back to your fab skill level.

Any time you can make the alum shrouding yourself you will save money, but you will only save it there. The rads are pricey no matter what and the fans are what they are, just shop around as it is cheaper from Summit and such than RD and Renegade of course with the middleman markup.

[JRust]

I am going to pony up the money to Renegade eventually. I just can't do it right now. So I am hoping to just get mine working better. My fan does not seem to pull alot of air thru at idle. Would it help at all to add another fan on the inside to help pull more air thru? I may still try to find something at the junk yard. Just something that I can put more upright. I'll add the openings I need to behind & in the bumper too. I've got Mark here tommorow & he just did the cuts for his renegade radiator.

So I will get those ready & we'll just see. Always a chance this just ain't going to cut it for WCR. Which will just flippin SUCK (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) . Still I'm giving it my best shot. Maybe with Mark's help we can get it working (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

Jamie

If you feel you don't wish to drive your car I may be willing to let you drive it at the WCR. I know I won't be able to be there most of the time as my little one to be is really not wanting to work with us on this one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Let me know. I hope you figure everything out though.

[JRust]

Jamie

If you feel you don't wish to drive your car I may be willing to let you drive it at the WCR. I know I won't be able to be there most of the time as my little one to be is really not wanting to work with us on this one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Let me know. I hope you figure everything out though.

I appreciate the offer Jon & who knows. I'm hoping to get it cooling enough to be okay. A little pissed overall with the whole thing. Just running out of time. I did however get my wheels sorted out. I found a set of 16x7 fuchs with black centers & polished lips. So at least my wheels will match (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[andys]

JRust,

You might also try Desert Hybrids in AZ. David is a very forthcomming person, and will not try to up-sell everything. Here's a link to his site where her discusses the cooling system (among other things). Being in Arizona, his cooling challenge is as demanding as any. He makes his system work with a GM radiator.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adbuch/id34.html

I am using an AFCO #80133N aluminum dual pass ASA racing radiator (with cap delete) for my V8 conversion. Though you'll have to fabricate the mounting and ducting, the radiator was only $229 two years ago.

Andys

[JRust]

I think my gage is off. We did a few things today. One was move my radiator fan from the outside & being a pusher. To the inside & being a puller. Huge difference with air flow. My gage says 230 while the laser reader it stayed at 190. That was checking the radiator all hoses leading to & from the engine. The engine was maybe 10 degrees hotter than the radiator. I am going to add a mechanical thermostat tommorow. SO I think I will be okay for the WCR. Keep your fingers crossed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[JRust]

Slight update! I blew a head gasket at WCR. My radiator also took a crap. I replaced with one I found at shucks. Really just a temperary fix. I am looking into different electric water pumps. Along with getting a better suited radiator. Still can't afford Renegades so I am looking into other options.

[Andyrew]

Your other option really is getting a good aluminum (best option is a 2 pass like posted above) radiator, and pulling your air from the front. I used a skill saw type air tool to cut mine mainly and a die cutter.

Keep in mind that the rule of thumb is you need 2x as much escaping area as you need for the air going into the radiator (IE your hole for the radiator inlet 2x bigger than the radiator outlet)

Make sure you have your radiator properly shrouded, or else your system will not work properly. Give it a really good fan or two, and make sure your water pump is good and your lines are clean.

Bleed the system good!


Good luck

[JRust]

Will do Andrew. I have been looking into it for quite a while now. This is the first I've heard about the inlet being twice as large as the outlet. My cutout for the outlet may be to large. I will measure it after I have made my cutouts in front. Picture of others setups always help (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Thanks for the tips as always