grind into first, second when hot, after adjusting clutch Options

[pete-stevers]

Why after adjusting the clutch to a point where when engaging into first or second there are no grinds on a cold start....
but after the car is hot it begins to grind in first second, and third does not engage as well
does the cable expand this much from the heat??

[jasons]

I have the same problem. It doesn't grind, but it fights me for first when hot. I have to do the 2nd back to first thing. Or slip the clutch while I'm trying to engage first.

Mine does this the worst when its completely heat soaked. I do have a eurorace header which cooks my cable. Even though its insulated with thermal wrap, its still a nuisance.

I've been able to correct it some by adjusting my shifter, but I can't find a "sweet spot" where everything works perfect. If I get first to work good, my 3rd to 4th shift suffers. If I get my 3rd to 4th shift to work, my 1st gear suffers. My linkage is all rebuilt. My console bushing is the PMS bronze unit. And, I have a Rennshifter.

[So.Cal.914]

Story of my life. I think the cable streches when it gets hot.

[pete-stevers]

is it the cable, the shift rod, or the tranny itself that reacts to the heat??

[jasons]

My guess would be the cable. After thinking about it, I'm tempted to adjust my clutch a little tight so when/if the cable stretches, its adjusted right. But, I would hate to put excess tension on the cable when its just sitting in the garage. I've also considered trying a Terrycable.

[Bartlett 914]

My first thought was about the oil. Seems to me that this is the most temperature sensitive component.

[Justinp71]

Why after adjusting the clutch to a point where when engaging into first or second there are no grinds on a cold start....
but after the car is hot it begins to grind in first second, and third does not engage as well
does the cable expand this much from the heat??

Did you pull the cable in and make the clutch release closer to the top of the pedal? Maybe you need to pull the trans out and put a washer behind the fork pivot ball so you have more fork travel to use.

I just recently did this on my car and my clutch releases about midway and so if the cable stretches I still have plenty of room. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dr Evil]

Where does the clutch disengage in the pedal stroke? It should dissengauge in the 1st 1/4 of pedal travel. You should have no more than 3/4" of play in the pedal when it is fully out.

Cables do stretch over time, and with heat and you may need a new one. I like the more robust Terry cables.

Has your flywheel ever been machined?

[orthobiz]

Where does the clutch disengage in the pedal stroke? It should dissengauge in the 1st 1/4 of pedal travel. You should have no more than 3/4" of play in the pedal when it is fully out.

These conversations always confuse me and I've adjusted my cable many times over the years and still don't know the answer.

When you say it should disengage in the first 1/4 of pedal travel, does that mean that your foot is off the pedal and only 1/4 of the way down, the engine will spin and the wheels will not?

And what exactly is "play" in the pedal. When your foot is off the pedal, is it the amount you can pull "up" (towards the driver) or is the amount you can gently push "down" (toward the floor) before your foot feels any resistance as the cable begins to take up tension?

And when your foot is totally pushed into the floorboard, as you let up on the clutch, when (distance or percentage of travel?) should the clutch begin to engage?

I will be forever grateful for the answers, O Doc of Evil!

Paul

[Dr Evil]

Within the 1st 1/4 of travel is the 1st 1/4 of travel if you take the whole of travel and divide it by 1/4ths. So, by the time you have covered 1/4 of the total travel during depressing the pedal, the clutch should be released.

Given the previous, when releasing the clutch pedal you should fell the clutch grab at about 3/4 travel on the way back up.

Play refers to neutral movement. You should be able to move the pedal up and down with no resistance (it should be loose) about 3/4 inch. The pedal will ultimately rest at the low end of this travel so you should be able to pull it back towards the aft of the car 3/4".


Clear as mud?

[JWest]

I think your bronze bushing is binding. You can't get clean shifting full left and right of the pattern at the same time because the bushing is limiting the off-axis rotation of the shift rod. The factory plastic bushing is hourglass shaped to prevent binding.

[jasons]

I think your bronze bushing is binding. You can't get clean shifting full left and right of the pattern at the same time because the bushing is limiting the off-axis rotation of the shift rod. The factory plastic bushing is hourglass shaped to prevent binding.

Were talking about the console bushing correct? #55?

[JWest]

Were talking about the console bushing correct? #55?

Yes, but a bronze bushing at the firewall can have the same effect.

[jasons]

If the factory console bushing is eccentric, will it orient itself correctly? I would imagine so, since most tranny consoles are so wallowed out. I have a new factory one, I will have to try that when it cools down here. I can see how a little lash there, would make a difference.

[JWest]

If the factory console bushing is eccentric, will it orient itself correctly? I would imagine so, since most tranny consoles are so wallowed out. I have a new factory one, I will have to try that when it cools down here. I can see how a little lash there, would make a difference.

It's not eccentric, the sides of the inner hole splay out from the center to allow the shift rod to pivot in the hole.

[jasons]

It's not eccentric, the sides of the inner hole splay out from the center to allow the shift rod to pivot in the hole.

OK, I'm with you now.

[orthobiz]

Within the 1st 1/4 of travel is the 1st 1/4 of travel if you take the whole of travel and divide it by 1/4ths. So, by the time you have covered 1/4 of the total travel during depressing the pedal, the clutch should be released.

Given the previous, when releasing the clutch pedal you should fell the clutch grab at about 3/4 travel on the way back up.

Play refers to neutral movement. You should be able to move the pedal up and down with no resistance (it should be loose) about 3/4 inch. The pedal will ultimately rest at the low end of this travel so you should be able to pull it back towards the aft of the car 3/4".


Clear as mud?

Yes, doc, thanks. What's really clear is that my clutch engages/disengages WAY too close to the floor! Looks like the pedal should engage up near the top. Thus, my clutch should start grabbing more proximal than distal!

I'll readjust my clutch and then play with the free play.

Paul

[Dr Evil]

Within the 1st 1/4 of travel is the 1st 1/4 of travel if you take the whole of travel and divide it by 1/4ths. So, by the time you have covered 1/4 of the total travel during depressing the pedal, the clutch should be released.

Given the previous, when releasing the clutch pedal you should fell the clutch grab at about 3/4 travel on the way back up.

Play refers to neutral movement. You should be able to move the pedal up and down with no resistance (it should be loose) about 3/4 inch. The pedal will ultimately rest at the low end of this travel so you should be able to pull it back towards the aft of the car 3/4".


Clear as mud?

Yes, doc, thanks. What's really clear is that my clutch engages/disengages WAY too close to the floor! Looks like the pedal should engage up near the top. Thus, my clutch should start grabbing more proximal than distal!

I'll readjust my clutch and then play with the free play.

Paul

As you adjust the clutch, the free play is also adjusted. When you are under your car, you should not be able to get much varis/valgas deflection in the cable. To get such is a sure indicator that your cable is too slack. What I recommend is to tighten the cable until it is taught, go and check the pedal play, loosen/tighten as indicated.

[DNHunt]

Proximal=toward the center
Distal=away from the center
Varus=bent inward
Valgus=bent outward

Enough you guys, it's a car for heaven sakes

[Dr Evil]

He started it with the proximal/distal talk (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)