HELP Car waiting for tow, problem diagnosis., Starter issue? Options

[klikkid3]

So I recently get done with my front bearing project and the car was running so smooth and nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) that I had that fear in the back of my mind about when it was all going to end. Well today I was coasting down mountain ave when the light changed so I down shifted into third, and it started. The starter is staying engaged with or without the key in. I pulled over and popped the lid and disconnected the negative terminal. Checked the wiring at the selenoid which looked normal, every time I reconnect the battery the starter engages and attempts to start the car. What do you all think? There is the obvious replace the starter but any other suggestions? I have a tow kit on it so I will try and get it home to take a closer look. Help!

[Bartlett 914]

So I recently get done with my front bearing project and the car was running so smooth and nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) that I had that fear in the back of my mind about when it was all going to end. Well today I was coasting down mountain ave when the light changed so I down shifted into third, and it started. The starter is staying engaged with or without the key in. I pulled over and popped the lid and disconnected the negative terminal. Checked the wiring at the selenoid which looked normal, every time I reconnect the battery the starter engages and attempts to start the car. What do you all think? There is the obvious replace the starter but any other suggestions? I have a tow kit on it so I will try and get it home to take a closer look. Help!

Pull the yellow wire off the solenoid. If this fixes it, then the problem is in the ignition switch / wiring. If not, the problem is in the starter (solenoid)

[r_towle]

starter relay could be shot.

I agree, unplug the yellow wire at the starter so you can get hom without starting a fire from the hot starter...

Rich

[jsayre914]

probably the ignition switch, 20 min fix.
even if that was not the problem, it soon will be if the starter is being run excessive. I suggest replace it either way, mine had a nice crispy smell when i pulled it out, and i got better key action now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[klikkid3]

I made sure to pull over and disconnect the battery when the problem started so hopefully I the avoided the crispy smelling starter. When I quickly touch the battery posts the starter sound normal it just wont shut off until the battery is disconnected. Your getting my hopes up with the 20min fix comment. What should I look for in the ignition after I get it home?

[orange914]

Pull the yellow wire off the solenoid. If this fixes it, then the problem is in the ignition switch / wiring. If not, the problem is in the starter (solenoid)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) hows your battery voltage under a cranking load? i've seen the solinoid "weld itself" from low voltage (weak battery). it archs internally and sticks. if you have voltage to the starter wire when its hooked up but not when disconnected then the soliniod is froze. sometimes a new (charged battery) and a smack to the solinoid is all it takes

mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[jsayre914]

I made sure to pull over and disconnect the battery when the problem started so hopefully I the avoided the crispy smelling starter. When I quickly touch the battery posts the starter sound normal it just wont shut off until the battery is disconnected. Your getting my hopes up with the 20min fix comment. What should I look for in the ignition after I get it home?

in my case, I pulled the stearing wheel unscrewed the long screws holding the switches, then I spent one hour tring to get the switch out after i unscrewed the bolts. All that frusteration could have been avoided if i had the damn key in the ignition (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) it allows the cylnder to slide foreward. Anyway, the switch is plastic, and the lead to the starter was burned and some of the plastic was melted on mine.

hope this helps

[TheCabinetmaker]

Switch is stuck in the on position. replace it.

[klikkid3]

I will give it a try tonight, cant imagine what the shop would charge for that job. So when I get the switch out I should look for melting? I wouldnt be surprised. I am starting to think the Big Oil companies are sabotaging my 914 so I will have to keep driving my chevy avalanche from gas station to gas station.

[klikkid3]

Pull the yellow wire off the solenoid. If this fixes it, then the problem is in the ignition switch / wiring. If not, the problem is in the starter (solenoid)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) hows your battery voltage under a cranking load? i've seen the solinoid "weld itself" from low voltage (weak battery). it archs internally and sticks. if you have voltage to the starter wire when its hooked up but not when disconnected then the soliniod is froze. sometimes a new (charged battery) and a smack to the solinoid is all it takes

mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Ok I pulled the yellow wire and it still tries to start with the key out of the ignition, so that means the starter for sure right? I will try smacking it a little harder for the heck of it. I saw some other threads but I am here so I will ask anyways, anyone have a sure fire trick to remove the top bolt of the starter?

[t collins]

That one is easy, remove the nut form inside the engine compartment.

[orange914]

Pull the yellow wire off the solenoid. If this fixes it, then the problem is in the ignition switch / wiring. If not, the problem is in the starter (solenoid)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) hows your battery voltage under a cranking load? i've seen the solinoid "weld itself" from low voltage (weak battery). it archs internally and sticks. if you have voltage to the starter wire when its hooked up but not when disconnected then the soliniod is froze. sometimes a new (charged battery) and a smack to the solinoid is all it takes

mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Ok I pulled the yellow wire and it still tries to start with the key out of the ignition, so that means the starter for sure right? I will try smacking it a little harder for the heck of it. I saw some other threads but I am here so I will ask anyways, anyone have a sure fire trick to remove the top bolt of the starter?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)
your soliniod is welded. make sure you have a full charge/good battery & cables/commections. if you can possibly "tap" loose the soliniod you should be good (if battery stuff is up to par). if not you'll probably just need a soliniod. go to the local parts house and have them check th starter itself too while it's out

mike

[klikkid3]

Well its not the starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) , new ones is in and still the same problem, but it was probably due for a new one anyway from the looks of the gear and I brushed away about thirty years of dirt and grime and sprayed undercoating while I was there. So how about that starter switch in the column, its the next probable cause, I could still use any hints or ideas you all might have.

[r_towle]

Look under the passenger seat and tell us if you have the "logic circuit" under there...It looks like a 2.5 inch long relay.

If not, time to take apart the steering column.

Remove horn (turn counter clockwise while pressing in...it pops about a 1/4 turn, then lift off and unplug the horn wire while lifting...so dont just yank)

Remove large nut, 24mm I think...
Pull wheel, set on a rag, its greasy on the bottom.
Four screws, little flat heads are facing you...remove them.
Gently pull blinker arm and wiper arm towards your face....
there are two plugs that connect these so you are pulling and possibly crawling under the dash to unplug them first...
There are also two washer hoses on the left side that you need to remove...

Once all of that is out, you can pull the lock tumbler
Behind the lock tumber is the cheap ass plastic broken igntion switch.
When you order a new one, buy two they are cheap...and you will break it again.

I found that the only one out there is for certain columns and needs to be shaved to fit in the older column....depends upon the column in your car...you will match it to your exiting switch.

Rich

[klikkid3]

Look under the passenger seat and tell us if you have the "logic circuit" under there...It looks like a 2.5 inch long relay.

If not, time to take apart the steering column.

Remove horn (turn counter clockwise while pressing in...it pops about a 1/4 turn, then lift off and unplug the horn wire while lifting...so dont just yank)

Remove large nut, 24mm I think...
Pull wheel, set on a rag, its greasy on the bottom.
Four screws, little flat heads are facing you...remove them.
Gently pull blinker arm and wiper arm towards your face....
there are two plugs that connect these so you are pulling and possibly crawling under the dash to unplug them first...
There are also two washer hoses on the left side that you need to remove...

Once all of that is out, you can pull the lock tumbler
Behind the lock tumber is the cheap ass plastic broken igntion switch.
When you order a new one, buy two they are cheap...and you will break it again.

I found that the only one out there is for certain columns and needs to be shaved to fit in the older column....depends upon the column in your car...you will match it to your exiting switch.

Rich

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) "Cheap ass plastic broken ignition switch" there is no way I could miss it with a description like that.

[r_towle]

its always the cheap ass plastic part that leaves you stranded...
You wont miss it...

Rich

[klikkid3]

Rich, I read earlier on this post to keep the key in to pull the ignition assembly, what position does it need to be in? Does the unit just slide out or do i need to pull with some force, by the way doing this help me figure out why my windshield wipers dont work, THEY WERENT PLUGGED IN!

[klikkid3]

Rich, I read earlier on this post to keep the key in to pull the ignition assembly, what position does it need to be in? Does the unit just slide out or do i need to pull with some force, by the way doing this help me figure out why my windshield wipers dont work, THEY WERENT PLUGGED IN!

Nevermind, I got the assembly out but how do i get the starter switch out, just yank, I see two tabs on the sides but I can not tell if they get squeezed in out other wise. The black is grease, i dont see any melting yet.

[klikkid3]

Rich, I read earlier on this post to keep the key in to pull the ignition assembly, what position does it need to be in? Does the unit just slide out or do i need to pull with some force, by the way doing this help me figure out why my windshield wipers dont work, THEY WERENT PLUGGED IN!

Nevermind, I got the assembly out but how do i get the starter switch out, just yank, I see two tabs on the sides but I can not tell if they get squeezed in out other wise. The black is grease, i dont see any melting yet.

Also a quick note, I have the entire ignition cylinder assembly out, and the starter is still turning over when I reconnect the battery. This is wierd.

[r_towle]

you have issues.

First, the switch may be screwed in there sideways...if not pull harder.

Follow the YELLOW wire back the the ignition.
It goes all the way to that switch, and it should not have power on it until you turn the key to start...It obviously does have power.

Rich