Carbs VS FI, Which is better? Options

[Mark Henry]

Now if your happy with a stock 80/95hp L/D-jet engine then I agree that stock FI is the best, but I'm not so then you're into carbs or PEFI.
Simple as that.

Carbs are not perfect but they can be tuned to a point of being comparable to FI and handle all sorts of mods to the engine. The 180hp (150rwhp) T4 I built runs just as smooth as a 95hp d-jet. My bus with a 2L T1 w/dual DCNF's runs better than stock 1600 with more than twice the power.
Most issues with carbs are user error, poor linkage set-up being #1, followed by engine faults (built bad or worn out) and poor choices on parts. With an solid engine, O2 meter and a set of jet reams I can set the A/F ratio right on the money. (I BTW I find the A/f ratio more stable with carbs). Four years ago I drove my VW squareback all winter, no chokes on my dual weber's down to -25C, never a problem.

If we were talking /6's there is almost no FI vs carb debate..if there's no FI on that /6 then slap some weber's on that puppy.
Guys will spend $3k on PMO's

[DBCooper]

That's why I said a stock engine, that's what we've been talking about.

For modified engines when you have to remove the stock fuel injection then a modern fuel injection system running in closed loop gives even more advantages. Carbs don't change mixtures according to feedback from the engine like FI in closed loop, so they can't provide correct fuel/air ratio for every situation. It's impossible. They simply don't have the physical capacity to do that. You can get carbs to be good, no doubt, but never as good as well tuned fuel injection. Any new performance cars you know of being produced today that use carburetors? Highest buck, no compromise cars running carbs? Even as optional equipment? Why not?

Sure you CAN drive a carbureted car in the winter with no chokes, we've all done it. But you've got to admit that it was primitive and your engine wasn't real efficient or friendly until it was warmed up. And did you try doing that at 8000 feet? That's the whole point, fuel injection gives you the correct air/fuel ratio no matter what the situation. Carburetors don't. They can't.

Put on $3000 PMO's IF there's no FI on the 6? Vroom, vroom.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[So.Cal.914]

And do they have any concern other than wide-open throttle? Do you drive your 914 at anything less than wide open throttle? If you do then that information is irrelevant.

I drive mine FT quite often, I built my engine to have fun with. I come out of most

corners at FT. I put my webers on about 25 years ago on a stock engine and the

performance was improved at lowend as well as topend. With the proper cam,

head work, crank and compression it produces plenty of power and Great throttle

responce. It's fun as hell and no matter what some 'know it all dick' says, they are

staying. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[DBCooper]

Great, like everything else on your car, do what you like. It's YOUR car after all. If you modified your engine then carburetors are fine, and 25 years ago when you put yours on they were the logical choice for a modified car. The bright side is that you can look forward to even better performance some day when you put a modern fuel injection system on it.

That's also more proof of what I said earlier, that people who think carbs are better than fuel injection are people who never had their fuel injection working correctly. Too bad you didn't just fix it back then, you'd have had 25 years of having more fun.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[LarryR]

I think you needed a 3rd category aftermarket fuel injection. I voted fuel injection but thinking twm throttle bodies.

[dw914er]

I voted FI. It workes great, and is pretty reliable (until you get some sort of leak). Its also from the factory, and efficient.

[TheCabinetmaker]

See? One more useless thread about FI vs carbs. To each his own. Why get hot and bothered and call someone an dick just because they have a preference? Do you think the guy that drives a Porsche thinks another guy is a dick cause he drives a Ferrari? Bullshit! There are applications where FI works best, and of course, where carbs work best. Why not save your typing skills for something that really matters? If ya wanna argue about useless bullshit, go to the sandbox and post in one of the 1237 useless political threads? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[Mark Henry]

See? One more useless thread about FI vs carbs. To each his own. Why get hot and bothered and call someone an dick just because they have a preference? Do you think the guy that drives a Porsche thinks another guy is a dick cause he drives a Ferrari? Bullshit! There are applications where FI works best, and of course, where carbs work best. Why not save your typing skills for something that really matters? If ya wanna argue about useless bullshit, go to the sandbox and post in one of the 1237 useless political threads? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Most peeps who hate carb's never had a clue on how to set them up proper, but then most peeps who rip off the FI never had it working proper as well.

This thread is pointless.

[DBCooper]

Most peeps who hate carb's never had a clue on how to set them up proper, but then most peeps who rip off the FI never had it working proper as well.

Agree totally. And the only people who can really compare are people who've actually done both correctly, well, and more than once.

This thread is pointless.

Can't totally agree with this though. People new to 914's or new to the forums probably need to see this back and forth once in a while to know they have options. It may be a waste of your time because you've seen it and heard it and done it yourself before, but that's not true for everyone.

[carcam]

I'm new and like this thread. What's PMO? I have Webers on my 6 and wouldn't mind a nice FI sometimes. Thanks.

[DBCooper]

They're modern upscale carburetors: http://www.pmocarb.com/

[So.Cal.914]

Now if your happy with a stock 80/95hp L/D-jet engine then I agree that stock FI is the best, but I'm not so then you're into carbs or PEFI.
Simple as that.

Carbs are not perfect but they can be tuned to a point of being comparable to FI and handle all sorts of mods to the engine. The 180hp (150rwhp) T4 I built runs just as smooth as a 95hp d-jet. My bus with a 2L T1 w/dual DCNF's runs better than stock 1600 with more than twice the power.
Most issues with carbs are user error, poor linkage set-up being #1, followed by engine faults (built bad or worn out) and poor choices on parts. With an solid engine, O2 meter and a set of jet reams I can set the A/F ratio right on the money. (I BTW I fine the A/f ratio more stable with carbs). Four years ago I drove my VW squareback all winter, no chokes on my dual weber's down to -25C, never a problem.

If we were talking /6's there is almost no FI vs carb debate..if there's no FI on that /6 then slap some weber's on that puppy.
Guys will spend $3k on PMO's

For modified engines when you have to remove the stock fuel injection then a modern fuel injection system running in closed loop gives even more advantages. Carbs don't change mixtures according to feedback from the engine like FI in closed loop, so they can't provide correct fuel/air ratio for every situation. It's impossible. They simply don't have the physical capacity to do that. You can get carbs to be good, no doubt, but never as good as well tuned fuel injection. Any new performance cars you know of being produced today that use carburetors? Highest buck, no compromise cars running carbs? Even as optional equipment? Why not?

Sure you CAN drive a carbureted car in the winter with no chokes, we've all done it. But you've got to admit that it was primitive and your engine wasn't real efficient or friendly until it was warmed up. And did you try doing that at 8000 feet? That's the whole point, fuel injection gives you the correct air/fuel ratio no matter what the situation. Carburetors don't. They can't.

Put on $3000 PMO's IF there's no FI on the 6? Vroom, vroom.

I do have a preference like alot of others here, carb or FI. This guy is like a Jehovah's Witness at your door, and no matter what my or anyone elses beliefs are HE IS RIGHT. Its like the neighbors chijuajua...bark bark bark bark bark bark.

See? One more useless thread about FI vs carbs. To each his own. Why get hot and bothered and call someone an dick just because they have a preference? Do you think the guy that drives a Porsche thinks another guy is a dick cause he drives a Ferrari? Bullshit! There are applications where FI works best, and of course, where carbs work best. Why not save your typing skills for something that really matters? If ya wanna argue about useless bullshit, go to the sandbox and post in one of the 1237 useless political threads?

Hey vsg914 'Blow Me"...

[J P Stein]

As the Canuck says, PEFI makes more power (& torque) and is more efficient than carbs....with all due respect to Pro Stockers who aren't allowed to use it.

Unfortunately it is more than twice as expensive for a top drawer set up (ie:one that works) than a new set of PMOs......this is 6 cylinder stuff....I dunno shit about 4 poopers.... cept they're slow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DBCooper]

I do have a preference like alot of others here, carb or FI. This guy is like a Jehovah's Witness at your door, and no matter what my or anyone elses beliefs are HE IS RIGHT. Its like the neighbors chijuajua...bark bark bark bark bark bark.

Convincing argument. Lots of good technical info there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Hey vsg914 'Blow Me"...

PMS?

[nsr-jamie]

Didn't the Euro 1.8 models come with carbs instead of injection??

[underthetire]

I voted FI, not stock, but I love to diagnose through the laptop and be able to make changes. It's also not bothered so much by bad/old gas and temperature.

[JmuRiz]

FI is the best, but I'm thinking more EFI...but that's $ to setup right. I'd love to have EFI on my WIP 6 conversion, but I couldn't pass up a full carb setup, manifolds, airbox, and linkage for under 1500...I'd have to pay double that for a nice ITB EFI setup.

Each setup has it's ups and downs. If you have a carb or FI setup that's working, just keep enjoying it. These cars are too much fun either way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[speed metal army]

I voted FI,Its predictable,and performs well.I also like the idea od programmable FI.
Carbs are cool too.If I didnt have the bux to replace a totally malfunctioning FI set up,(or fix it etc)I'd run some carbs,cuz they are simple(ish)and fairly cheap.

[914 shifter]

up to 2056 original d-jet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) bigger displacement needs carbs or aftermarket fi (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

[Bleyseng]

Didn't the Euro 1.8 models come with carbs instead of injection??

yes, 8.6CR plus dual Solexes like a VW Bus.