Heat exchangers for a six, Who makes the best? Options

[Johny Blackstain]

I'm not 18 anymore & require heat in my car. I bought my six off the 914world classifieds 2 yrs ago & have found the car to be a blast, except in the winter. Very good for the air cooled engine, very bad for my bones. Obviously I have headers & I love the power, torque & sound I get out of them. I'd like to presume that the original heat exchangers were removed for the number 1 reason here on the East Coast... RUST & $COST$. I can live w/out A/C, but heat is a must. Suggestions? The six is sporting a high compression 2.7.

[type47]

i think there are some stainless steel HE (w/heat) but they are BIG money, if i recall, somethink like 1800 per side. I want to say made by or purchased from SSI (the people who do 911 SSHE's), but at any rate, from some company that advertises in popular magazines. I'd go to Auto Atl web site for a first attempt at a look-see.

[Johny Blackstain]

i think there are some stainless steel HE (w/heat) but they are BIG money, if i recall, somethink like 1800 per side. I want to say made by or purchased from SSI (the people who do 911 SSHE's), but at any rate, from some company that advertises in popular magazines. I'd go to Auto Atl web site for a first attempt at a look-see.

I was looking @ Patrick Motor Sports, $2300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif), but AA George said anything but the originals suck & rob power from the engine. Unlike the SS exchangers for the 4 bangers, noboby has reproduced an exact copy of the original sixers in SS. The ones in my 4, along w/ powder coated ducting, rock!

[jd74914]

Why would that be? The stock /6 ones were made for a low-power 2.0L. Stockers probably do heat better than most aftermarket ones, but in no way should using aftermarket models cause you engine power loss.

[Johny Blackstain]

Why would that be? The stock /6 ones were made for a low-power 2.0L. Stockers probably do heat better than most aftermarket ones, but in no way should using aftermarket models cause you engine power loss.

If you compare the stock exchangers to the ones Patrick carries you'll notice all sorts of extra curves & bends on the stock ones. These equalize the exhaust pressure & maximize scavenging- a must according to Dr. 914 & Dr. Raby (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . I'd love to go w/ the Patrick set, but for $2300 they had better be right.

[r_towle]

i think there are some stainless steel HE (w/heat) but they are BIG money, if i recall, somethink like 1800 per side. I want to say made by or purchased from SSI (the people who do 911 SSHE's), but at any rate, from some company that advertises in popular magazines. I'd go to Auto Atl web site for a first attempt at a look-see.

I was looking @ Patrick Motor Sports, $2300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif), but AA George said anything but the originals suck & rob power from the engine. Unlike the SS exchangers for the 4 bangers, noboby has reproduced an exact copy of the original sixers in SS. The ones in my 4, along w/ powder coated ducting, rock!

Have you checked with SSI?
I think they are still making them, or at least have some on hand.
Also, check Rick at HPH...he probably has a few on the shelf.

Rich

[Johny Blackstain]

Have you checked with SSI?
I think they are still making them, or at least have some on hand.
Also, check Rick at HPH...he probably has a few on the shelf.

Rich

SSI? HPH? Websites? Thanks.

[r_towle]

Have you checked with SSI?
I think they are still making them, or at least have some on hand.
Also, check Rick at HPH...he probably has a few on the shelf.

Rich

SSI? HPH? Websites? Thanks.

have you heard of Google...? Its a really simple tool.

I dont think SSI sells retail...they might.
HPH is Rick Bontempi in NorCal...hes a 914 nutcase. He has loads of 914 parts and he knows the best things to use...call both..dont email..this is old school guys.

Rick knows the SSI guys and does alot of business with them.

SSI
20 Pamaron Way Ste A
Novato, CA , 94949-6218
Phone: 415-883-2000

HPH
http://www.highperformancehouse.com/

Rich

[Johny Blackstain]

have you heard of Google...? Its a really simple tool.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

dankeschön (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[J P Stein]

No SSIs for a 914/6.
From what I have heard, the pricey aftermarket SS exchangers have dubious fit & quality....kinda hit & miss. Whadda' ya want for 2300 bucks?

For a small port engine, their tubing diameters are too large to effectively scavenge....which hurts power. For a 2.7L with 35mm exh ports, you should have 1.5 dia tubing headers, for instance.

[GeorgeRud]

Unless something has changed, SSI has never made a stainless heat exchanger for the -6. His products are works of art, and should be used whenever possible, but I think he never saw enough of a market to tool up for the 914-6 heat exchangers, though many have begged him to!

Someone was making some in Australia, but they didn't have any access holes for installing them onto the heads (making it a major pain). The original factory ones are available, though they make the aftermarket ones seem cheap.

Occasionally, some used ones come up on eBay, and can be used. It probably is a good idea to have a CO detector in the car if you do have some used ones, or drive with the top off in cold weather!

The other option is to install an Eberspacher gas heater. It will keep you very toasty, but I've only seen pictures of an install in a 914, and have never talked to anyone that actually had one.

[IronHillRestorations]

B&B makes some, but 3 out of 4 sets won't fit right. Unless you like to deal with returns/rework/return shipping, I'd try another brand.

GHL makes some, but I haven't seen those first hand. They will be the next I try if I do another car with a big engine that needs heat.

The factory heat exchangers work very well for engines up to, and including a 3.0. They have excellent flow. You might give up a little power on the top end, but not much. The much storied 215hp carb'd 3.0 in Bruce Anderson's book, was in fact in a 914-6 with factory heat exchangers.

It's very rare to find a set that doesn't need some repair to the heat shells. The exhaust pipes are close to the shells at the bottom which oxidizes the metal and helps it rust. For the most service life I recommend doing whatever repairs are needed and then getting them Jet-Hot coated.

It's also fairly common for the pipe to rust rear of the 3/1 merge. Years ago I built a set of jigs to repair this part for the left and right 6 heat exchangers.

Here's the GHL link: http://www.ghlmotorsports.com/Merchant2/me...gory_Code=PH-NT

B&B: http://www.bbexhaust.com/car/9689146/

[IronHillRestorations]

Here's a pic from the GHL website, the heater shells are much larger than the B&B's

[J P Stein]

Here's a pic from the GHL website, the heater shells are much larger than the B&B's

Either there is some magic afoot or they are not equal (& proper) length headers.

[Johny Blackstain]

B&B makes some, but 3 out of 4 sets won't fit right. Unless you like to deal with returns/rework/return shipping, I'd try another brand.

GHL makes some, but I haven't seen those first hand. They will be the next I try if I do another car with a big engine that needs heat.

The factory heat exchangers work very well for engines up to, and including a 3.0. They have excellent flow. You might give up a little power on the top end, but not much. The much storied 215hp carb'd 3.0 in Bruce Anderson's book, was in fact in a 914-6 with factory heat exchangers.

It's very rare to find a set that doesn't need some repair to the heat shells. The exhaust pipes are close to the shells at the bottom which oxidizes the metal and helps it rust. For the most service life I recommend doing whatever repairs are needed and then getting them Jet-Hot coated.

It's also fairly common for the pipe to rust rear of the 3/1 merge. Years ago I built a set of jigs to repair this part for the left and right 6 heat exchangers.

Here's the GHL link: http://www.ghlmotorsports.com/Merchant2/me...gory_Code=PH-NT

B&B: http://www.bbexhaust.com/car/9689146/

dankeschön (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) !

The B&B ones look nicer than the GHL ones, which happen to look identical to the ones Patrick Motorsports sells (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) . Just got off the phone w/ "Lufteknic" & they claim there is a backorder for the SSI exchangers & wanted $250 deposit to put me on the list (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) . In doing all this research I found someone who has 2 original sixes for sale... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) I must be insane cause I'm going to go look.

[Lavanaut]

The original factory ones are available, though they make the aftermarket ones seem cheap.

I don't think this is true. George @ AA told me his last set is long gone and sold for $5k. If you know of another source for OEMs, do tell! But oh, uhhh...in private please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Just got off the phone w/ "Lufteknic" & they claim there is a backorder for the SSI exchangers & wanted $250 deposit to put me on the list (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Backorder for SSI heat exhangers for a /6? That's one list I'd highly advise steering clear of... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Johny Blackstain]

I don't think this is true. George @ AA told me his last set is long gone and sold for $5k. If you know of another source for OEMs, do tell! But oh, uhhh...in private please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) , George told me the same thing. However, this is my thread so get in line!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Backorder for SSI heat exhangers for a /6? That's one list I'd highly advise steering clear of... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Again, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) . They got none of my money. I asked them to get back to me to see where exactly I'd be on this list. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Lavanaut]

Backorder for SSI heat exhangers for a /6? That's one list I'd highly advise steering clear of... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Again, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) . They got none of my money. I asked them to get back to me to see where exactly I'd be on this list. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

What I was getting at is that, as others have already said in your thread ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)), SSI has never made heat exchangers for the /6, and I've read that the owner has stated explicitly that he will not ever make 914 exchangers again. I think Andy had a conversation about it with him at one time.

Anyone care to comment on this? If I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first/last time, buuuut....

[PanelBilly]

I'm not far enough into my car build to be looking for heat yet, but I will be. My plan was to build my own tin around a new set of pipes. I have to think that this has been done before. It can't be any harder than bodywork.

Any of you folks out there that has given this a try?

[Johny Blackstain]

What I was getting at is that, as others have already said in your thread ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)), SSI has never made heat exchangers for the /6, and I've read that the owner has stated explicitly that he will not ever make 914 exchangers again. I think Andy had a conversation about it with him at one time.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I seem to remember something along these lines myself. Also, I was wrong about GHL- they look nothing like the Patrick ones... quite shitty looking to be honest. Real a shame about the bad luck Perry had w/ B&B... best looking ones of the bunch. However in comparing the photos between B&B & Patrick Motorsports these look like they're made @ the same plant. This scares the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) out of me.