I'm not 18 anymore & require heat in my car. I bought my six off the 914world classifieds 2 yrs ago & have found the car to be a blast, except in the winter. Very good for the air cooled engine, very bad for my bones. Obviously I have headers & I love the power, torque & sound I get out of them. I'd like to presume that the original heat exchangers were removed for the number 1 reason here on the East Coast... RUST & $COST$. I can live w/out A/C, but heat is a must. Suggestions? The six is sporting a high compression 2.7.

i think there are some stainless steel HE (w/heat) but they are BIG money, if i recall, somethink like 1800 per side. I want to say made by or purchased from SSI (the people who do 911 SSHE's), but at any rate, from some company that advertises in popular magazines. I'd go to Auto Atl web site for a first attempt at a look-see.

I was looking @ Patrick Motor Sports, $2300 , but AA George said anything but the originals suck & rob power from the engine. Unlike the SS exchangers for the 4 bangers, noboby has reproduced an exact copy of the original sixers in SS. The ones in my 4, along w/ powder coated ducting, rock!

Why would that be? The stock /6 ones were made for a low-power 2.0L. Stockers probably do heat better than most aftermarket ones, but in no way should using aftermarket models cause you engine power loss.

If you compare the stock exchangers to the ones Patrick carries you'll notice all sorts of extra curves & bends on the stock ones. These equalize the exhaust pressure & maximize scavenging- a must according to Dr. 914 & Dr. Raby . I'd love to go w/ the Patrick set, but for $2300 they had better be right.

Have you checked with SSI?
I think they are still making them, or at least have some on hand.
Also, check Rick at HPH...he probably has a few on the shelf.

Rich

SSI? HPH? Websites? Thanks.

have you heard of Google...? Its a really simple tool.

I dont think SSI sells retail...they might.
HPH is Rick Bontempi in NorCal...hes a 914 nutcase. He has loads of 914 parts and he knows the best things to use...call both..dont email..this is old school guys.

Rick knows the SSI guys and does alot of business with them.

SSI
20 Pamaron Way Ste A
Novato, CA , 94949-6218
Phone: 415-883-2000

HPH
http://www.highperformancehouse.com/

Rich

dankeschön

No SSIs for a 914/6.
From what I have heard, the pricey aftermarket SS exchangers have dubious fit & quality....kinda hit & miss. Whadda' ya want for 2300 bucks?

For a small port engine, their tubing diameters are too large to effectively scavenge....which hurts power. For a 2.7L with 35mm exh ports, you should have 1.5 dia tubing headers, for instance.

Unless something has changed, SSI has never made a stainless heat exchanger for the -6. His products are works of art, and should be used whenever possible, but I think he never saw enough of a market to tool up for the 914-6 heat exchangers, though many have begged him to!

Someone was making some in Australia, but they didn't have any access holes for installing them onto the heads (making it a major pain). The original factory ones are available, though they make the aftermarket ones seem cheap.

Occasionally, some used ones come up on eBay, and can be used. It probably is a good idea to have a CO detector in the car if you do have some used ones, or drive with the top off in cold weather!

The other option is to install an Eberspacher gas heater. It will keep you very toasty, but I've only seen pictures of an install in a 914, and have never talked to anyone that actually had one.

B&B makes some, but 3 out of 4 sets won't fit right. Unless you like to deal with returns/rework/return shipping, I'd try another brand.

GHL makes some, but I haven't seen those first hand. They will be the next I try if I do another car with a big engine that needs heat.

The factory heat exchangers work very well for engines up to, and including a 3.0. They have excellent flow. You might give up a little power on the top end, but not much. The much storied 215hp carb'd 3.0 in Bruce Anderson's book, was in fact in a 914-6 with factory heat exchangers.

It's very rare to find a set that doesn't need some repair to the heat shells. The exhaust pipes are close to the shells at the bottom which oxidizes the metal and helps it rust. For the most service life I recommend doing whatever repairs are needed and then getting them Jet-Hot coated.

It's also fairly common for the pipe to rust rear of the 3/1 merge. Years ago I built a set of jigs to repair this part for the left and right 6 heat exchangers.

Here's the GHL link: http://www.ghlmotorsports.com/Merchant2/me...gory_Code=PH-NT

B&B: http://www.bbexhaust.com/car/9689146/

Here's a pic from the GHL website, the heater shells are much larger than the B&B's
Click to view attachment

Either there is some magic afoot or they are not equal (& proper) length headers.

dankeschön !

The B&B ones look nicer than the GHL ones, which happen to look identical to the ones Patrick Motorsports sells . Just got off the phone w/ "Lufteknic" & they claim there is a backorder for the SSI exchangers & wanted $250 deposit to put me on the list . In doing all this research I found someone who has 2 original sixes for sale... I must be insane cause I'm going to go look.

I don't think this is true. George @ AA told me his last set is long gone and sold for $5k. If you know of another source for OEMs, do tell! But oh, uhhh...in private please.


Backorder for SSI heat exhangers for a /6? That's one list I'd highly advise steering clear of...

, George told me the same thing. However, this is my thread so get in line!!



Again, . They got none of my money. I asked them to get back to me to see where exactly I'd be on this list.

What I was getting at is that, as others have already said in your thread (), SSI has never made heat exchangers for the /6, and I've read that the owner has stated explicitly that he will not ever make 914 exchangers again. I think Andy had a conversation about it with him at one time.

Anyone care to comment on this? If I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first/last time, buuuut....

I'm not far enough into my car build to be looking for heat yet, but I will be. My plan was to build my own tin around a new set of pipes. I have to think that this has been done before. It can't be any harder than bodywork.

Any of you folks out there that has given this a try?

I seem to remember something along these lines myself. Also, I was wrong about GHL- they look nothing like the Patrick ones... quite shitty looking to be honest. Real a shame about the bad luck Perry had w/ B&B... best looking ones of the bunch. However in comparing the photos between B&B & Patrick Motorsports these look like they're made @ the same plant. This scares the out of me.

The difficulty is that you should not weld the outer envelope to the tubes, but rather should have a flanged slip joint to address expansion issues. Ideally, you would have to remove the mounting flanges, make the envelopes in two pieces, assemble and weld/fasten the outer surfaces together. Having the dies to properly flange the envelopes to the tubes is expensive.

To do it right is a major undertaking not to be taken lightly.

"Luftecnic", SSI distributors here on the East Coast, called back & confirmed there are no SSI exchangers for the six. Best looking ones are either Patrick or B&B. Only difference I can see is the O2 bunghole. GHL ones do not look very good. Photo order is Patrick, GHL & B&B.

Or the Hayword and Scott. Which might be a pain to get to the flange nuts.

http://www.haywardandscott.com/Details.asp...amp;category=16

I have the stock HE's but have found that they dont work all that great with the turbo.

Whoa! Those look fabulous!!! Thanks Chappy! Current exchange rate shows it to be $2351.13US + shipping. Patrick sells theirs for $2300 + shipping. I think I found my answer!!

I'm looking forward to an actual owner/user of these aftermarket SS/6 HE's to respond with what they think about:

1. amount of heat generated
2. fitment issues
3. worth the $$$ ?

Should be quite a few aftermarket SS/6 HE's owners in the Pacific NW and Alantic NE.

I've been driving a heater-less /6 for the past 20 years. A heater sure would be nice as the 914 and I get older.

John at SSI never made stainless heat exchangers for the /6 ... The market for such a product just wasn't there ...
Andy

again ...


Eberspächer or Webasto gas heater is the way to go!
Andy

The Patrick Motorsports is the Billy Boat. There's a B&B logo right on the page

I have a set of B&Bs on my car, but unfortunately, it's not back from the shop, so I can't really comment. My expectations are not high, though, from what I've heard from other owners. The Hayward & Scott ones look promising - does anyone here have experience with them?

I thought so. Thanks. Hayward & Scott still have my vote.

If you get a set, will you post a review/follow-up? I'm with you in thinking the Hayward & Scott may be the winner. Time to scour the forums...

Johny, if you contact them ask if they can make them in larger diameter -1-5/8, 1 3/4 or the mm equivalent.

Contacted today, waiting on a reply. Will ask about the larger diameters & if all goes well & I go for it, I will review.

I shot them an email as well. Will share any info I get back. Johnny, will you do same? I'm not going to ask them about the larger diameter if you already did.

I did not ask about a larger diameter yet & yes I'll follow up regarding Hayward & Scott. I'm no longer interested in any of the other ones available.

The Hayward & Scott have welds inside the heat shells. That's a big no-no.

Perry, could you elaborate on this?

Well, apparently I did, indirectly. This is the response I just received, along with 2 larger photos, attached:

Do you have 914 / 6 ? just wondered as you also mentioned a 3.2 but are
you transplanting the engine into the 914 ?. As for supercharging the
pipes would be far to small as standard ( 1.5" OD ) even for a 3.2 but
if you go ahead with the order and mention at the time we would enlarge
the pipes to accept the additional power ( 1.75" OD ). They are made
from BS304 16 SWG through out and the heat exchangers work very well
and we haven't had a complaints. :-) .

lead time at the moment is approx 4 -6 weeks and if you can give me your
full address we can get you a shipping price.

Thank you

Ian Reeve
Manager

1. Not much, low air flow
2. Good Fit
3. Nope

BB Stainless Steel units. Really great quality, but $2k for luke warm air sucked.

I don't see any welds on the headers, only on the air box itself, which is OK ...
Andy

PS: However, the air box itself is small and barely covers a small part of the headers. I just can't see this setup producing any real heat.
PPS: And how are you supposed to tighten the exhaust nuts? I don't see any access holes.

There is a special wrench you can buy for VW/Porsche air cooled header nuts that would get those. I have one. Looks sort of like a funy "U" shaped wrench with a little "S" on the closed end of it. fits 13mm nut heads. It would get the above exhangers no problem.

I do agree with you Andy, I am not seeing much heat exhange area. Not even close to the factory units. I wonder if these produce any heat?

It looks like they use the same headers as Triad west. I wonder if I could talk Dave into doing something like this only having the exchangers go down the headers further.

These came up in a thread about a year ago, and I sent them an email asking if there were any welds inside the heater shells, to which they said "yes, but we haven't had a problem". Sorry, wrong answer. Porsche abandoned any heat exchanger with welds inside the heater shells back in the 60's when a few people died.

I would think a few well placed holes drilled into them could solve that problem.

A follow-up response:

Yes we can make them in which ever size you wish but the 1.625 will
restrict the performance once you have super charged. The 1.75 will be
OK for the 3.2 as that is the size we make them for the 3.2 911. I
guess we could make them in 321 but 3o4 is just as good these days as
the arefazing 321 out and improving 304. We have real trouble getting 321.

Ian

Andy,

Whay I think Perry is referring to is having a weld on the pipe which resides inside the shells... not having the shells welded to the pipe.

If there is a weld that is contained within that fresh air shell, the risk of death has just multiplied expodentially beyond one that I would take.

Mr. Al; why not find some factory HE's and simply have them fixed. A decent welder can patch the shells and you'll be good to go? They can be had for $6-700 but they'll need work. Pipes are excellent and they're a perfect fit. Paint them with the POR-20 Manifold Grey and you'll be good to go for another 20+ years.

Soooo...what exactly is the danger? Noxious fumes from the exposed weld, or...?

Dis-similar metals, holes get corroded into the pipes and fumes get ported directly to you.

Chappy, what is the OD of the stock HEs? How is the smaller pipe affecting your turbo setup? Is it insufficient at high boost, or any boost level?

Do you think the stock HEs would be ok for a NA 3.2? If so, and you ever decide to sell yours, please keep me in mind!

-duc

Stock HE's will work with the 3.2 ok, i know there are a few on the board with this setup.

I think the stock pipes are 1 1/2, i have good low end grunt with the stock HE's but the turbo lag is horrible. With my headers i am building boost at 2800 rpms, and with the stock HE's around 4000, it hits hard and is still very strong maybe even more so than the headers up to 6400 rpms which is surprising to me.

From Hayward & Scott, in response to my inquiry about welds inside the heat shells, as well as about heating performance:

They would have a weld where 2 bends are so close together that they
can't be made in one but the join is purged when welded so in other
words you get a nice neat strong weld on the inside as well as the
outside .The heat from the exchangers work extremely well as they are
basically the same size as we would put on a 911 3.2 ( i have them on
mind and they are very hot )and get very hot. If you look on a 993 they
are also quite small and work extremely well.

Hope this helps

Ian