Someone pissed off Jake & Len, replicating LE heads Options

[davep]

a new thread on Air Cooled Technology:

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/show...23001#post23001

it was not a smart move on someones part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[ONTHEGRIND]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[p914]

a new thread on Air Cooled Technology:

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/show...23001#post23001

it was not a smart move on someones part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Spread the word and name of the perp so we all know who and where this jergoff is.

[Drums66]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[ericread]

Just for the record;

I didn't do it!

Eric Read (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

[DBCooper]

Ididn't either, but that won't go anywhere. Without a patent there's no "intellectual property" to protect.

[jimkelly]

oh come on - i was whittleing a 2.0 head out of a bar of soap in my prison cell - how the hell did jake find me all cozy in my upper bunk ?? i am gonna find the snitch and force him to give me a cigarette for my troubles : )

[TJB/914]

I didn't do it!!!!

I recently bought a pair of #7500 Leading Edge 180" CNC 2.0 914 Replica 3-stud intake heads from Len/Jake for my camshaft replacement project. I didn't like a few things & corrected a few minor items to my satisfaction (see my recent post). I went on his web site a few weeks ago to buy a part & found out I am banned when I tried to log in. He is very sensitive to constructive criticism.

Heck I got over it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Maybe I better check the bushes before going into my garage for peeping Jakes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Seriously: I understand Len & Jake's concern. They put their life's work into the business & have a right to protect their hard work.

Tom

[r_towle]

That sucks.
Its happened to him before and it just sucks that it keeps happening.

I guess its to hard to sell the stuff and ensure that the buyer is for real...or the buyer didnt just buy the stuff to replicate his work.

Reverse engineering happens all the time. I guess the nice part of the Internet is that work travels fast and hopefully the discount heads will be avoided.

Rich

[Todd Enlund]

I guess the nice part of the Internet is that work travels fast and hopefully the discount heads will be avoided.

I really don't even see how anyone could do it cheaper... at least not substantially cheaper. Unless they planned on using old heat cycled 1.7 heads as cores. A pair of new AMC heads is $700, plus $1200 worth of machine work...

[brer]

Carbon copying Len's ports is not cool, and thats really where the trouble lies with CNC. Its a fantastic technology but a double edge sword or sorts.

That said, converting a 1.7 or AMC head to 2L really isn't that hard for a good cylinder head shop to do.

[pete-stevers]

i dunno.... i think jake makes a great product, no doubt
but love him or hate him
(and i kinda like him)
but he is a bit of a drama queen

[EdwardBlume]

Geez. Jake and Len are good guys. They have more important things to do. Anyone know the perp?

[HAM Inc]

That said, converting a 1.7 or AMC head to 2L really isn't that hard for a good cylinder head shop to do.

In this digital age we live in, that statement couldn't be more true. But, alas! The devil is in the details!
90+% of the work that is important to reliability is not performed by the job shop CNC, at least not yet. And a significant % of the performance details are also not performed on the CNC. The cat that knows his stuff is still worth the extra $.

Whoever you are, all I have to say on the matter is: Copy away! If you survive the wrath of Jake for the 6 months or so that the copied version is a current representation of our work, you will soon enough be producing an out of date design. Though the tweaking is subtle, for the most part, at this point of our T4 development, it is constant. Rust never sleeps, and neither does Jake!

[904svo]

That said, converting a 1.7 or AMC head to 2L really isn't that hard for a good cylinder head shop to do.

In this digital age we live in, that statement couldn't be more true. But, alas! The devil is in the details!
90+% of the work that is important to reliability is not performed by the job shop CNC, at least not yet. And a significant % of the performance details are also not performed on the CNC. The cat that knows his stuff is still worth the extra $.

Whoever you are, all I have to say on the matter is: Copy away! If you survive the wrath of Jake for the 6 months or so that the copied version is a current representation of our work, you will soon enough be producing an out of date design. Though the tweaking is subtle, for the most part, at this point of our T4 development, it is constant. Rust never sleeps, and neither does Jake!

No sooner than Jake and Len come out with a new head design they are all ready
working on a new design that mades the old one out dated.

Keep up the good work Len.

[Katmanken]

Looks like Jake has branded his products.

You go dude!

When this is all over, we want to see a picture of "Aircoled Technologies" "branded" into his butt.

Ken

[914Sixer]

Damm, nothing is safe any more! But there is an old saying:

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

[Joe Owensby]

It is not cool copying something that was developed by someone else, nor is it cool for someone to buy something that was copied. This applies to type IV engine components, Boeing airplanes, all the way down to illegally copying CD's. It is all stealing in one way or another. Jake and Len have expended time and money to develop their engine components and systems, and part of the cost in purchasing these is to pay for the development costs. If we don't support their business, they won't be able to stay and develop more so we all suffer.

I would suspect that the typical market for this type of technology is confined to a focused group of individuals, and that peer pressure should be reasonably effective in preventing knock offs from being too popular. The internet boards are probably one of the best ways to have the facts shared, so everyone knows what is going on, and can ask for more details if they are in the process of making a purchasing decision. Most people don't like a thief, and would help to minimize purchases of stolen technology. But, unfortunately there will always be at least one person taking advantage of a situation.

I hope this gets solved for the best for Jake and Len.

[Chris Hamilton]

Well he certainly knows how to talk big...

I don't think he has a legal leg to stand on though, plenty of other people have done porting jobs on VW Bus heads before.

[Jake Raby]

For the record:
I have never banned anyone from my Type 4 Store, matter of fact there is no way to do that through the software. I have banned people from m,y forum, when they broke my very specific rules. Thomas Bliznik is not banned from anything as far as I know, and **I** am the ONLY administrator.

Now lets address this:

Ididn't either, but that won't go anywhere. Without a patent there's no "intellectual property" to protect.

Absolutely incorrect. People that think this haven't spent the money and time on the topic that I have.

The LE series heads are a branded component that is the intellectual property of HAM and RAT. These are components that are utilized to create engines and engine kits that are proprietary to our companies, these engines can't be patented. There is virtually no way to patent a port shape or process, not for us or anyone else. BUT these ports are branded and part of a pedigreed assembly that is recognized Internationally- all of these things matter in this case, just like they did with my DTM.

I learned all about this in 2004 when someone got busted replicating my DTM. He **thought** that since the shroud wasn't patented that there was nothing I could do about it. I ran his ass underground and proved him very wrong.

So, we'll let the legal staff do their part- they get paid very well for what they do because they are the best, boldest, most aggressive team of assholes I could find- they specialize in this and I keep them on retainer.

At any rate, we take all of this seriously, some may call it drama, but they haven't ever worked their entire fucking life to achieve a goal only for some worthless son of a bitch to steal it.

Unlike others in this Industry, Len and I are not retiring soon and we are continuing to carry forward momentum with everything we do. All we can do is constantly keep our eyes and ears open and do what we can to provide security for our developments.

I take everything that happens under this roof seriously, nothing is more important to me and that includes family- thats not bullshit.