a new thread on Air Cooled Technology:

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/show...23001#post23001

it was not a smart move on someones part.

Spread the word and name of the perp so we all know who and where this jergoff is.

Just for the record;

I didn't do it!

Eric Read

Ididn't either, but that won't go anywhere. Without a patent there's no "intellectual property" to protect.

oh come on - i was whittleing a 2.0 head out of a bar of soap in my prison cell - how the hell did jake find me all cozy in my upper bunk ?? i am gonna find the snitch and force him to give me a cigarette for my troubles : )

I didn't do it!!!!

I recently bought a pair of #7500 Leading Edge 180" CNC 2.0 914 Replica 3-stud intake heads from Len/Jake for my camshaft replacement project. I didn't like a few things & corrected a few minor items to my satisfaction (see my recent post). I went on his web site a few weeks ago to buy a part & found out I am banned when I tried to log in. He is very sensitive to constructive criticism.

Heck I got over it. Maybe I better check the bushes before going into my garage for peeping Jakes

Seriously: I understand Len & Jake's concern. They put their life's work into the business & have a right to protect their hard work.

Tom

That sucks.
Its happened to him before and it just sucks that it keeps happening.

I guess its to hard to sell the stuff and ensure that the buyer is for real...or the buyer didnt just buy the stuff to replicate his work.

Reverse engineering happens all the time. I guess the nice part of the Internet is that work travels fast and hopefully the discount heads will be avoided.

Rich

I really don't even see how anyone could do it cheaper... at least not substantially cheaper. Unless they planned on using old heat cycled 1.7 heads as cores. A pair of new AMC heads is $700, plus $1200 worth of machine work...

Carbon copying Len's ports is not cool, and thats really where the trouble lies with CNC. Its a fantastic technology but a double edge sword or sorts.

That said, converting a 1.7 or AMC head to 2L really isn't that hard for a good cylinder head shop to do.

i dunno.... i think jake makes a great product, no doubt
but love him or hate him
(and i kinda like him)
but he is a bit of a drama queen

Geez. Jake and Len are good guys. They have more important things to do. Anyone know the perp?

In this digital age we live in, that statement couldn't be more true. But, alas! The devil is in the details!
90+% of the work that is important to reliability is not performed by the job shop CNC, at least not yet. And a significant % of the performance details are also not performed on the CNC. The cat that knows his stuff is still worth the extra $.

Whoever you are, all I have to say on the matter is: Copy away! If you survive the wrath of Jake for the 6 months or so that the copied version is a current representation of our work, you will soon enough be producing an out of date design. Though the tweaking is subtle, for the most part, at this point of our T4 development, it is constant. Rust never sleeps, and neither does Jake!

No sooner than Jake and Len come out with a new head design they are all ready
working on a new design that mades the old one out dated.

Keep up the good work Len.

Looks like Jake has branded his products.

You go dude!

When this is all over, we want to see a picture of "Aircoled Technologies" "branded" into his butt.

Ken

Damm, nothing is safe any more! But there is an old saying:

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

It is not cool copying something that was developed by someone else, nor is it cool for someone to buy something that was copied. This applies to type IV engine components, Boeing airplanes, all the way down to illegally copying CD's. It is all stealing in one way or another. Jake and Len have expended time and money to develop their engine components and systems, and part of the cost in purchasing these is to pay for the development costs. If we don't support their business, they won't be able to stay and develop more so we all suffer.

I would suspect that the typical market for this type of technology is confined to a focused group of individuals, and that peer pressure should be reasonably effective in preventing knock offs from being too popular. The internet boards are probably one of the best ways to have the facts shared, so everyone knows what is going on, and can ask for more details if they are in the process of making a purchasing decision. Most people don't like a thief, and would help to minimize purchases of stolen technology. But, unfortunately there will always be at least one person taking advantage of a situation.

I hope this gets solved for the best for Jake and Len.

Well he certainly knows how to talk big...

I don't think he has a legal leg to stand on though, plenty of other people have done porting jobs on VW Bus heads before.

For the record:
I have never banned anyone from my Type 4 Store, matter of fact there is no way to do that through the software. I have banned people from m,y forum, when they broke my very specific rules. Thomas Bliznik is not banned from anything as far as I know, and **I** am the ONLY administrator.

Now lets address this:

Absolutely incorrect. People that think this haven't spent the money and time on the topic that I have.

The LE series heads are a branded component that is the intellectual property of HAM and RAT. These are components that are utilized to create engines and engine kits that are proprietary to our companies, these engines can't be patented. There is virtually no way to patent a port shape or process, not for us or anyone else. BUT these ports are branded and part of a pedigreed assembly that is recognized Internationally- all of these things matter in this case, just like they did with my DTM.

I learned all about this in 2004 when someone got busted replicating my DTM. He **thought** that since the shroud wasn't patented that there was nothing I could do about it. I ran his ass underground and proved him very wrong.

So, we'll let the legal staff do their part- they get paid very well for what they do because they are the best, boldest, most aggressive team of assholes I could find- they specialize in this and I keep them on retainer.

At any rate, we take all of this seriously, some may call it drama, but they haven't ever worked their entire fucking life to achieve a goal only for some worthless son of a bitch to steal it.

Unlike others in this Industry, Len and I are not retiring soon and we are continuing to carry forward momentum with everything we do. All we can do is constantly keep our eyes and ears open and do what we can to provide security for our developments.

I take everything that happens under this roof seriously, nothing is more important to me and that includes family- thats not bullshit.

Was he trying to replicate them for his own use or did he say he was going to try and sell them?

Either the port designs are patented and the guy is trying to copy them
-or-
The guy was selling them to people under a trademarked brand ( assuming LE is a trademark )


-IF- either of those are true, the guy is gonna get what's coming to him. If neither are true this is a case of legal bullying. You can copy the shit out of a design that isn't patented, and you can call it whatever you want if the brand isn't a trademark.

QFT. All jake can do if neither of those is true is talk about it online and hope to discourage buyers.

Kick their ass Jake!!!!!! Take no prisoners!!!!

I have had my work copied. They say ithat immitation is the greatest form of flattery, but that is bullshit!

It's just a creap trying to save and/or make a quick buck & cheat you out of your money, and it sucks!

Bury them!

did he even touch them? whats actually been stolen?

I hope this isn't all because of something some girl said.




(uh, humor)

Mr. Hamilton,
Are you a Lawyer or just a regular smart ass?

I have already been through this and I KNOW what is involved and what my rights are.

What matters right now is the person was busted before he was able to do any real harm. I made the post on my forum to make our following aware that this had occurred and now thousands of people are watching out for us all over the World.

Let the fact be known that the opinions or comments made by those on this forum mean nothing as none of you here have all the facts, nor do you understand the composition of my business- (nor is it any of your business what I do, how I do it or why)

No matter what occurs legally, copying our components or anyone elses isn't cool.

There is a possibility that some replication has already occured from one of our profiles, the plot was foiled as the person was attempting to copy a 200CFM port.

So, let me deal with this, if I wanted to field the smart ass comments from the armchair Lawyers here I would have posted the info here-

wait didn't you post that? on your own site? just breaking balls...

funny

Incorrect? Don't think so, Jake. Part of my job is doing exactly that, and has been for the last twenty years.



Then "branded" as you're using the word would mean trademarked, and that's also intellectual property, but totally different than a patented innovation. So are you talking about this fellow actually using the RAT trademark on his parts? If that's it, and you've registered that trademark, then you would have a case.



Stromberg? Now THAT is something totally different. Sure, you can outspend someone else by showering them with lawsuits that everyone knows you would never win, but since it's so much cheaper for them to settle than to fight their counsel would suggest that they throw in the towel. That's legal bullying, and I guess you could call that a win if you like, but it's nothing to do with intellectual property or the merits of the case.



Then you need to file for patents on patentable innovations, but I'm sure your attorneys have already told you that. No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual property, and no basis for a lawsuit.

Len's earlier post had better explanations for why no one will be able to copy your products, and that's the "unapparent" technologies and processes. It takes time, skill, and experience to put together that sort of package, and no one will be able to duplicate that with just a CNC machine.

Reality check. Is there any real proof of any of this? Or is it all just hearsay and speculation?

Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to understand all of this since intellectual property is quite fascinating to me...

Jake is producing the heads based on the original Porsche heads with modifications he/Len have developed right?

Could Porsche have the same claim against Jake since he is making the heads on the CNC machine now?

How much does something have to be modified before its considered "different"...I believe a former boss of mine had this problem once when he tried to patent his idea, the patent office rejected it because it was "too easily modified" (I think that was the reasoning"

Porsche would have a better claim against Jake than Jake would have against whoever is copying Jake's modifications, but since nothing in the whole chain is patentable no one would ever "win" anything in a lawsuit. Unless someone who has the deepest pockets decides it's worth their while to put someone else out of business.

Edit: Volkswagen would have a better claim, not Porsche.

He modifies original castings, or like original castings from another source.
I'd also believe that nothing in the Jake's (or Porsche's) would not be covered by some prior art.


This, too.

I was cloned and had my software engineering secrets mass produced and provided to the general public in the form of how to do X, Y, Z the right way.

Follow on actions included patenting my secret beer consumption methods, procrastination extrodinare skills for idiots was published, how to hang out on car forums 101 was blogged... F*&^% I was violated.

Eventually my slacker 101 skills took over the clone and he was rendered useless. He had an endless desire to improve his beer consumption skills and unplug his remote control flow.

S&*&^% then he married the same kind of woman I did and he sued my a$$ ... I was like WTF... The complaint was something along the lines of dishes, yard maintanence and work come before hobbies had caused him undue stress and were at odds with his ingrained natural instincts and it was all my fault!!!!

So I can sympothize but I figure just keep the lawyers out of it and settle it old school Let discretion be the determining factor in that.



It is assumed that it is realized that this is an attempt to make light of a serious situation in hopes of making one laugh to realize that life is too short to get to pissed off for to long ... If said disclaimer is not taken to heart reread... and if you dont laugh provide suggestions

False!

I've been through this personally.
You can have a valid claim for "intellectual property" without a patent or trademark.

BTDT

Andy

+1

Well, not to really argue this, but I assume you're talking about copyright, which isn't anything close to the issue here.

I also am curious about the fact that it now takes registration to view the original thread on Jake's site. I'm interested in more details, but do not really need another account.

I know the difference between actually breaking the law and suing someone in an attempt to bankrupt them from legal fees. You didn't mention a single real law being broken, you just keep making unfounded claims and talking about how badass your lawyers are.

I never said that i was referring to Jake's case. I was simply pointing out that "DBCooper" made a comment that in itself is not true.

As you can see from my post, i was quoting "DBCooper" directly and did not refer to Jake at all ...
Andy

Not to worry, I went to register and recieved this message... "Sorry, registration has been disabled by the administrator."

registration is down due to spammer attacks

Yeah, this is the sort of behavior I don't really appreciate in a potential supplier.

Oh, Andy, I didn't mean to say you were, just commenting to make it clear for people concerned about the legal aspect of this. I happen to have actually read current US copyright law.

Edit: removed obvious snark.

My forums have been closed to new registrations for 2 weeks now. We were seeing 500 spamer registrations per day and vbulletin doesn't have a "fix" for the issue yet and recommended that I kill registration while they work on a new patch.

All that matters is the fact that we have stopped this guy- ultimately that's all that matters.

FWIW - it's widely believed (a belief CMW continues to promote) that 'the' D-shaped port for Porsche (probably just 911, haven't actually read the patent...) cylinder heads is patented.

Article on CMW's D-Port Patent

Clearly there are forms of automotive industrial design that are protected and protectable.

Software duplication, CNC/CAM part cloning, and other intellectual ripoff techniques are just very poor form, practiced by the greedy and lazy.

It is highly unlikely that Porsche still has a patent on the 2 liter cyclinder head. It would have expired years ago. It's free for everyone to copy.

Absolutely. But they're real innovations that "advance the art", meaning different and unique ways of doing things, and not subtle modifications of existing methods. Part of the "art" of getting a patent is convincing the examiner that what you're doing really advances the art. Subtly re-shaping a port wouldn't, while totally re-forming it into a D? Maybe? Evidently.

Edit: Funny, after writing that I went to the CB Performance site, because they used to sell a "mini-D" port head. It's not there, the port is extended a bit more and they're now called "wedge" ports. But a web search turns up hundreds of other "d-port" heads, modified and new, from lots of big companies. Evidently Pontiac was making "d-port" heads back in the Sixties. So that CMW patent may not cover what they represent it as covering, another little trick about "patented" products.

And yes, Andy, you're right. I was referring to patent related intellectual property and not thinking about other types. But if you just went through this then I'm sure your lawyer told you about good practice, always using that copyright phrase and using the TM symbol whenever you use a proprietary term. Those give you protection later if there's any doubt about origination. With mechanical innovations that good practice is a patent. If you don't have it, and if the item's been in commerce for a year without it, then it becomes public knowledge and there's no real protection.

Jake doesn't have a patent, or a patentable product, so this is really all about business ethics. Someone is rumored to be thinking about copying Len's good work. But head porting has always been art mixed with science. A CNC machine can get close, but like Len observed, it can't do it all. This is when good reputation counts.

Just for the record, our LE-180 design (so named because the intake ports will flow a minimum of 180CFM @ .500" valve lift) isn't an exact replica of the 2.0 914 head. The chambers are, but the ports themselves have a series of minor improvements that I used to do by hand. We also modernized them with better seat and guide materials and 12mm plug bosses. They aren't reproduced with factory emblems or part #'s. They are a hybrid of Porsche and HAM innovations. They sell okay, but the big movers are the LE-200's. All LE series heads are under constant development for better materials, proceedures etc., but the LE-200's are where the total package sees development. Those heads are my playground, so to speak. I enjoy the tweaking and the never ending battle to make them better and more technologically advanced. That's why I said, copy away. The LE-200's that this fellow wanted to copy have already been superseded, anyway!

I think in the world of racing parts this is typically the case, innovation is what keeps the copycats behind you on the track.

Anyone who has the confidence that they provide a superior service does not need to resort to legal tactics, because even if this guy copies them, he may not have the reputation to sell them.

I agree. Getting into the patent world is pretty messy and expensive. We recently spent over $3million in outside legal fees to fight a lawsuit by a competitor- all over something as minor as notches in a food tray. But, it was a $70million per year business, so it was worth the fight. We won, and ended up making the company that sued us pay the legal fees, plus we obtained the rights to their patent. A quick look on the US patent site, USPTO.gov for "cylinder and head and valve" gives 747 patents that include these terms. I would imagine if someone took the time to review all of these in detail, both the body and the claims, they would find about anything there is to do with cylinder heads. This is for patents that pertain to products or functions. Trademarks or copyrights are another thing, but are harder to enforce on things other than appearance.

Jake and Len have the reputation of high technology development, great customer support as well as good quality systems and components. This reputation will support their sales which will allow further development to keep them ahead of copycats. For example, my decision topurchase one of their kits was based entirely on good comments on the 914 world board, and I was well pleased with what I got.

I think it is also great of them to share tidbits of technical information on the boards to help educate us on issues with the type IV engines, items such as proper oil, head cracking issues, new engine develpments etc.

This being the Thanksgiving season, thanks guys. JoeO

Try the Google patent search, it's really good. Lots better than the patent office's ancient software.

Very correct, unless they are used in complete engines that could then be similarly prepared to some of our offerings.

I certainly agree with Len, that there are preparation aspects of the heads that can't be replicated but "confusingly similar" components could be created and that could be damaging.

What matters most is the processes were halted and now enough people are aware of the efforts that it'll be hard for anoyone to have a successful endeavor, even if they copied the heads, no matter what may go on in court.

Our following is large and they are loyal, due to that the people will be more effective than anything that can happen in court.

I am trying to create positive energy from all of this, especially with the Holidays upon us. In some ways having things copied can be the biggest pat on the back that can be given to a developer.