Wut Color to Paint it?, ...a Tale of 4 Colors.... Options

[Tom_T]

Okay Originality experts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) - I'm going to just ask some K.I.S.S. single topic questions to solicit your guidance on this, cuz my overly complicated posts just aren't workin'!

This question is how should I paint her, after I get everything repaired & rust issues resolved, given that....

I'm not a CW guy nor looking to make my 914 one, but just a true to original/OE & nice occasional driver, such that I maximize both it's current & long term value, as well as long term survivability.

I now know that my 1973 914-2.0 both has matching GA engine numbers & possibly tranny too (but probably not the latter) per the COA & car's numbers that I can read. It's an early 73 2L - built 9/72, VIN 4732901954 & Engine GA000424.

Per the under carpet/other "hidden" areas + COA - it's originally a L80E "Light Ivory/11" (white - blah! for my personal tastes) paint color.

ON the other hand & curiously, the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) COA says its a "Black Leatherette/31" - when it's CLEARLY a TAN with matching loop/pile carpet !! ...although the L&R door armrest TOPS & Dash etc. are Black !? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

The interior is pretty good condition OE that will clean up well - with the exception of a 2" x 3" tear on the driver seat side bolster & 2 small 1/2" & 1" tears on the passenger seat side bolster & pass. side door top bolster underside (can find matching leatherette to sew-in those sections), a crack in the middle of the dash (new since stored), leather on steering wheel needs AM recovering kit (easy), & missing L&R OE carpet floor mat sections (easy to remedy with nice embroidered aftermarket carpet mats & hunt for OE replacements under that).

It has some moderate body F&R body-face panels & surrounding sheet metal work to be done - so it's NOT an accident free example, nor is it a low milage "garage/trailer maven" at 174k indicated & perhaps up to 190k true counting short periods to get speedo/odo. cables fixed over the time I owned it since 12/26/75.
Pix are posted at: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...93838&st=60

However, when I bought the car just over 3 years after first sold, it was what looked like a 3 year old Tan or Gold paint color - perhaps a first buyer or dealer initiated "Dealer Repaint" at the time of first sale on 11/9/72!

Because of the early aging of the Tan/Gold paint, I had it repainted to Copper Metallic/L99K in 8/76, then again in 5/80 I repaired some small rust bubbles & repainted it to the 911/930 Anthracite Grey Metallic/#??. I know - BAD me!!!! ...at least I was smart enough to go for a `73 2L, instead of a "purdy new" but slower 76 2L!

Notwithstanding the above - if I had bought a 73 914 new MYSELF, then I would've probably ordered either Marathon Blue Metallic/L96M or Alaska Blue Metallic/L96B or another Porsche or custom color match in a Blue Metallic/L99-98 -- get my (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) BLU drift!?

To Summarize - An early 73 914-2.0 / "914S" with a strong running matching numbers GA 2L, a reasonably nice OE Tan Interior, but with some rust bubbles & 3"x6" RF Floor Pan Rust & Body Damage F&R to repair, & 170-190k miles....

...so how much should I fret researching stuff & putter her back to "absolute original" ?

.....versus just making ME happy with how I wudda ordered the car myself???

AND So the Color Questions:

Should I only consider going back to the factory L80E? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...or...

Should I research whether the Tan/Gold was a Dealer Repaint & the way it "drove off the dealer's lot" ....& repaint to that?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

In other words - should I even waste time trying to track this 1st color change down? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

...or...

Should I just pick an appropriate 1973 Blue Metallic choice above, as I would have done putting out the "full ticket" new car price??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Here are some pix for your perusal & "viewing pleasure"....

A TALE OF 4 COLORS AS RE-PAINTED FROM BEHIND REAR BUMPER -
ANTHRACITE GREY METALLIC OVER COPPER METALLIC OVER A TAN OR GOLD (METALLIC?) OVER THE INITIAL WHITE:

[Tom_T]

THE HALF-FAST COA - STILL WORKING TO GET IT CORRECT & COMPLETE!

[Tom_T]

BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THIS IS A TAN INTERIOR!!

[Tom_T]

AND TAN PILE CARPET




THE REAR TRUNK CHASSIS NUMBER - NOTE MORE OF A GOLD TONE HERE, RATHER THAN TAN-ISH

[Tom_T]

ID PLATE @ LF HEADLIGHT BUCKET - PAINTED OVER (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)




MATCHING GA ENGINE CASE NUMBER (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

[Tom_T]

TRANSAXLE CASE NUMBER - BUT DOES IT MATCH? ...DOES IT MATTER IF IT DOESN'T, SINCE GA# DOES? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)




IS THIS A 4/28/1979 BUILD DATE???? ....OR???

HOW LATE WAS THIS 914 / [9]11 CASE MADE?? ...INTO 1979???

FYI - MY 12/83 SERVICE RECORD FOR THE TRANSMISSION OVERHAUL INDICATED A USED CASE WAS PURCHASED - BUT COULD THAT HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE CASE, THEREBY LEAVING THIS NUMBER INTACT AS ORIGINAL NUMBER????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

OOOPS.......HERE I GO AGAIN, ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS! ...I'M .JUST A "SPONGE" AROUND YOU 914 GURUS, I GUESS! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

THANX IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR OPINES! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[MDG]

Hi Tom, I'll have to take a moment (or several) to read through all you've written but one thing jumped out at me; the COA stating Light Ivory 11. While technically correct it should read Light Ivory L80E. 11 is the Porsche code number that would be on a 911; L80E is the proper VW code for a 914. Light Ivory has been around since the 356 days. (still is only now it's called Campanella White by VW)

I'd go back to them and tell them to get it right - if they can. Bring up the obvious interior color error; that they have written the paint code in wrong etc.. What does the Karmann plate have for a color code?

The biege in your pic could be one of the factory spec colours - Sahara Biege or Grey-Beige. And it's not unheard of for someone who buys a a car, say late in the summer when the next year's model are coming out, when the pickings are slim as to color choice. They take advantage of end of season sell-offs but choices are limited to what is available.

My first 914 purchased in 1983 from the original owner was Marathon blue; the lady lived accross the street and I remember the day she brought it home. 10 years later when I bought the car I discovered the original paint code for Sunflower yellow; I asked her about it - the yellow was the last '73 on the lot; loved the car, not so much on the yellow, sat down with the color deck and picked Marathon Blue. Car was disassembled and repainted before she ever drove it.

m.

[Jasfsmith]

Tom:

Unless you are going to make a serious attempt to restore your 914 for concours level judging (willing to strip the vehicle down to it's shell for a repaint), I wouldn't waste my time considering the COA specs, and choose the paint color that you personally prefer.

[tod914]

Tom, seems like you have alot of sentimental attachment to this particular car. Olympic blue one's do pop up on occassion. Get the best of both worlds, fix this one and paint it the blue you like. Bet it would like real nice with that tan interior.

[SirAndy]

I'm going to just ask some K.I.S.S. single topic questions to solicit your guidance on this, cuz my overly complicated posts just aren't workin'!

So, this is one of your "simple" posts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

PS: Paint her in the original color!

[Tom_T]

Tom, seems like you have alot of sentimental attachment to this particular car. Olympic blue one's do pop up on occassion. Get the best of both worlds, fix this one and paint it the blue you like. Bet it would like real nice with that tan interior.

Tod & All - the thing that I'm most concerned with on the paint color question, aside from my personal preferences, is that apparently the car's value could be significantly less if painted a different color than the COA/Labels & Plates denote - perhaps by several $1000s!

Is this correct or not? ...& if so, by how much do I lose?

...&/or....

Have I already "screwed the pooch" value-wise due to the accident damage - even if properly repaired? ...i.e.: it doesn't really make a diff color-wise anymore, due to that damage.

Maybe Dr914 George has an opinion & numbers on this??

I've decided that I can live with L80E (white) or Tan/Gold if the value is substantially less! I've seen AA & others list what seem to be clean 914's for $5 - $7500 supposedly because the PO changed the color, vs. others in original form between the $13 - $20+ thousand range (per current NADA for 73 2L retail pricing on-line)!!!

If I'm going to lose 1/2 or more of the value, then hell wid it! - White or Tan/Gold it is!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

...and if that, then I need to know whether I should look for how it got to Tan/Gold & document it as a "Dealer At or Pre-New Car Sale Repaint" - if it was?
...& whether I would repaint it the Tan/Gold??
...or if I have a choice to ponder of either Tan/Gold or L80E white??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

If value loss is not a concern in my case - then I think Olympic Blue is a non-metallic, so I'd probably go with one of the "period correct" 914 metallic blues mentioned in my first post here - and, yes I agree, it would look reeeeeeally good with the tan interior! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

The tan interior is also a lot cooler than black here in sunny & semi-arid (read = almost a desert!) SoCal with a non-AC car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

...same for the AZ, NV, NM & South TX folks! Those in the sweltering 150% humidity South, East & Midwest summers - there's no help, ya just stick!!

As for my alleged attachment to this 914 - you be the judge: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I'm 56 - & will be 57 in Sept., have been driving since 15.5 (almost 42 years), got my 1st car at 17, have only had 5 cars total EVER (not counting my parents' cars - 6 counting the inherited Honda we just restored for the kids to drive) - AND I STILL HAVE NUMBERS 3, 4 & 5 AS LISTED IN MY SIG BELOW!
Fortunately these were all selected in part because they would be potentially collectible one day, and have turned out to be so. I just prefer to maintain & keep my cars!

Also, my 73 914-2.0 was the first car I owned which I really wanted - as opposed to the $800 68 1.1L Opel 2dr Sedan 1st car, or after it died - taking over the used car payments on my Dad's huge ole 69 Pontiac Ventura 4dr that he "sold" to when they moved from San Diego to Indianapolis (job transfer - not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) ) - which were just economical transportation during HS & college ...yes - even the Ventura when gas was still $0.27 a gallon!!!!

PLUS - the 914 was always a reliable & strong running car, even according to my German born & Porsche factory trained on 914s mechanic Hans - it was one of the strongest 2Ls he'd seen! ...partially due to his skills I'm sure!! So I know the car & its good & bad points, want to get it back running & looking good (if not perfecto) and do some (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) again!!!!!!!

And then I live in a 1921 Craftsman Bungalow home which we're maintaining, renovating & will be adding to it in the same architectural style.

I just value the quality of old stuff I guess! ...or maybe I'm just cheap having grown up with both sets of Grandparents & a Great-grandmother who were Great Depression "survivors" who impressed frugal values on me - instead of today's "throw away" values? ...or maybe a little of both!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Tom_T]

Hi Tom, I'll have to take a moment (or several) to read through all you've written but one thing jumped out at me; the COA stating Light Ivory 11. While technically correct it should read Light Ivory L80E. 11 is the Porsche code number that would be on a 911; L80E is the proper VW code for a 914. Light Ivory has been around since the 356 days. (still is only now it's called Campanella White by VW)

I'd go back to them and tell them to get it right - if they can. Bring up the obvious interior color error; that they have written the paint code in wrong etc.. What does the Karmann plate have for a color code?

The biege in your pic could be one of the factory spec colours - Sahara Biege or Grey-Beige. And it's not unheard of for someone who buys a a car, say late in the summer when the next year's model are coming out, when the pickings are slim as to color choice. They take advantage of end of season sell-offs but choices are limited to what is available.

My first 914 purchased in 1983 from the original owner was Marathon blue; the lady lived accross the street and I remember the day she brought it home. 10 years later when I bought the car I discovered the original paint code for Sunflower yellow; I asked her about it - the yellow was the last '73 on the lot; loved the car, not so much on the yellow, sat down with the color deck and picked Marathon Blue. Car was disassembled and repainted before she ever drove it.

m.

My thoughts exactly - sort of - on a dealer repaint/color change, except that mine was sold 11/72 & early in the model year & only #424 GA US Legal 2.0 - so maybe still a shortage of the preferred color on the lot, & what dealer wants to lose a sale to a buyer who doesn't want to wait for a factory ordered color.

The one detail area of 4 colors looks like Tan (Sahara Beige maybe), but then the one at the chassis number pic above looks more like the metallic gold which I thought I remembered it originally being for me in 12/75. ...but there aren't 3 prior colors - just 2 L80E & Tan/Gold, cuz I've checked several places.

But then - which is more correct to repaint L80E white or Gold/Tan - or is it a toss up?

If I get anything from Calif. DMV in their microfilm research, &/or I find my original seller docs somewhere, then I can try to track down the original story that way &/or via the selling dealership.

[Tom_T]

Hi Tom, I'll have to take a moment (or several) to read through all you've written but one thing jumped out at me; the COA stating Light Ivory 11. While technically correct it should read Light Ivory L80E. 11 is the Porsche code number that would be on a 911; L80E is the proper VW code for a 914. Light Ivory has been around since the 356 days. (still is only now it's called Campanella White by VW)

I'd go back to them and tell them to get it right - if they can. Bring up the obvious interior color error; that they have written the paint code in wrong etc.. What does the Karmann plate have for a color code?

m.

As to their (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) COA - PCNA's records have a lot more problems than just the colors!!!! According to them, my car was first sold in Connecticut almost a year after my CA registration says it was first sold! ...so do I sue them for fraud on double selling it as a new car, or for faulty record keeping under Federal Law & DOT Regulations - or both!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Has anyone seen a COA for the 2.0s which will actually list which Options & Packages (e.g.: Appearance Group &/or Performance Group) were "included" with the car's sticker price??

Not only I would like to force them to correct the COA errors & add in the missing numbers & dates (PCNA told me they show a 9/72 build date, but not on the COA!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) ) - but to also list the full compliment of "included options" on my COA, as they did on the window stickers which I've seen for the period!!!

I bought an early 1973 914s Porsche/PCNA brochure online to help with this COA & restoration issue, which I think was in use during Fall 1972 when mine was sold, and which lists the 2.0 as the 914S (I know that story about the change to 914-2.0 forced by Porsche in Germany). It's the bigger 9" x 14" one with 12 pages, & I'll post the front cover, specs & 2.0 upgrades pages on this & 2 following posts (due to file sizes).

FYI - HERE IS THE SPECS PAGE FROM THAT BROCHURE IN A READABLE FORM



...Next Post will show the "upgrades" page for the "914S" (2.0)....

[Tom_T]

AND THE "914S" FEATURES & UPGRADES PAGE




...ahhhh - the poetry of the marketing gurus at PCNA never fails to move me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
...now if they could only get their damn records straight! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

...Next Post will show the Front Page Pic - cropped to fit the post file limit - For Identification of Brochure Purposes, you've probably seen it elsewhere on-line, but the pages' text isn't readable - these are....

[Tom_T]

AND FINALLY - THE TRIMMED DOWN VERSION OF THE COVER SHOT OF THIS 73 914 BROCHURE IN QUESTION

[Tom_T]

Tom:

Unless you are going to make a serious attempt to restore your 914 for concours level judging (willing to strip the vehicle down to it's shell for a repaint), I wouldn't waste my time considering the COA specs, and choose the paint color that you personally prefer.

Okay, but how does that affect the value of the car post-restoration?

BTW - I keep getting the confusion over a complete strip down to bare body/uni-body as the only ostensibly "true" restoration.

However, in my day - and I AM an old fart now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/howard.gif) or nearly so at 56-57 - that was called a "frame up rebuild" or "strip to frame rebuild"!

Whereas, a "restoration" was leaving the car largely assembled - only removing what must be taken off to repair & restore damage &/or to ease the repaint & repair work process, and perhaps stripping the surfaces to be repainted to bare metal if necessary to get a good finish. The latter is what I'll be doing & not for concours.

Back in the 60's I helped my Uncle do a frame-up rebuild on his "barn find" (literally) 58 Vette, so I know the diff!

And when you get into "Antique Car" circles (over 50 years old) - which the 914s soon will be & some 356s are already - it is considered preferable & more valuable to have a well "restored" car with a maximum number of well kept original parts still intact & unmolested - as they say - versus a completely "frame up rebuild" where nothing much is still original from the factory.

These are 2 entirely different processes, and generally recognized within other collector car circles - so why the confusion here at 914world?

Can Pat or some other CWs weigh in here on my apparent ignorance on this terminology regarding 914s????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

Hi Tom, I'll have to take a moment (or several) to read through all you've written but one thing jumped out at me; the COA stating Light Ivory 11. While technically correct it should read Light Ivory L80E. 11 is the Porsche code number that would be on a 911; L80E is the proper VW code for a 914. Light Ivory has been around since the 356 days. (still is only now it's called Campanella White by VW)

I'd go back to them and tell them to get it right - if they can. Bring up the obvious interior color error; that they have written the paint code in wrong etc.. What does the Karmann plate have for a color code?

The biege in your pic could be one of the factory spec colours - Sahara Biege or Grey-Beige. And it's not unheard of for someone who buys a a car, say late in the summer when the next year's model are coming out, when the pickings are slim as to color choice. They take advantage of end of season sell-offs but choices are limited to what is available.

My first 914 purchased in 1983 from the original owner was Marathon blue; the lady lived accross the street and I remember the day she brought it home. 10 years later when I bought the car I discovered the original paint code for Sunflower yellow; I asked her about it - the yellow was the last '73 on the lot; loved the car, not so much on the yellow, sat down with the color deck and picked Marathon Blue. Car was disassembled and repainted before she ever drove it.

m.

Hmmm "not uheard of...". Yep, it is. I've never heard of this scenario in the early 70's. You didn't have to wait more than 2 months for the colors you wanted. Four months if you wanted it paint to sample.

I know of someone who wanted his 914 painted Smyrna Green. Goot it 3 months later.

The lady you metioned Had to pay a fortune to change color. Makes me wonder.
Pat

[MDG]

Tom, I wouldn't get too hung up on the paint colour you choose affecting value; if you plan on doing a concours resto and showing it that's a different story. Sounds like you've got a car you love with real personal history. That's why you ARE going to spend thousands and thousands and thousands (get my drift yet?) to bring it back to where you will be statisfied. A car you plan to keep and enjoy.

paint it the colour you've always wanted; do a good enough job - strip the car to the tub, bare metal and back, everything painted as the factory did - and you'll be rollin' in roses. Paint it Marathon Blue. The value to the average Joe on the street will not be damaged.

Now, if you end up going pink or some wild metal fleck job, yes, the $$$ you'd command at re-sale will be determinded by/if you find someone that shares your taste.

It's your car, your wallet that will bring it back. Get what you want and enjoy.

and man, you type long posts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

cheers, m.

[MDG]

Hmmm "not uheard of...". Yep, it is. I've never heard of this scenario in the early 70's. You didn't have to wait more than 2 months for the colors you wanted. Four months if you wanted it paint to sample.

I know of someone who wanted his 914 painted Smyrna Green. Goot it 3 months later.

The lady you metioned Had to pay a fortune to change color. Makes me wonder.
Pat

Really Pat? You've never heard of dealerships selling off last years model, sometimes at significant savings, come August/September to make room for the new MY rolling in? Wow, it's different down there. Still goes on here every year. Problem is of course, to take advantage of those savings, well you get what they have as far as options, colours etc. It is a sell-off after all. You'd obviously be shocked to talk to body shops who make a nice buck doing colour changes on brand new cars come fall. It's pretty common stuff really for say one of the rich rice burner kids to pick up his brand new whatever, for say $30k, drive it to my brothers shop, pay him another $20-$30k to have him do a complete, then drive it to the tuners shop, drop another $$$$$ to get it the way he wants. THEN he has the car he wanted in the first place.

Crazy? You'd better believe it. Unheard of? Hardly. Paul, my brother, has done it on Jags, Porsches, BMWs, Mercedes . . . people with the dough will pay for what they want. Someone, somewhere is doing it right now.

The only areas left on my old '73 that still showed sunflower yellow was behind the back pad and the floor under the carpet; everything else - trunks, tank area and engine compartment, had been changed to Marathon Blue and I've known that car since the day she drove it home. Go figure.

[Tom_T]

The lady you metioned Had to pay a fortune to change color. Makes me wonder.
Pat

Pat, Not a Fortune & Not unheard of -

My 8/76 repaint color change to Copper Metallic L96K (#?) - where they obviously pulled the bumpers & did the trunks & door jambs - was only $225.00 thru a group that served the dealers that the local Porsche guy referred me on the sly. I'm sure the dealer pays less in those cases! I'm looking at my invoice.

And I know of at least one person who did an "on the lot" color change in order to get his 2.0 yesterday, back in 1972!