 Do you have to pull the engine to change the clutch?, I need to do a clutch change and had some questions... |
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| Cire |
 May 5 2009, 12:13 PM
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#21
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 279 Joined: 12-March 09 From: Tucson, Arizona Member No.: 10,155 Region Association: None  |
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| Cire |
May 5 2009, 12:14 PM
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 279 Joined: 12-March 09 From: Tucson, Arizona Member No.: 10,155 Region Association: None |
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| SirAndy |
May 5 2009, 12:24 PM
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#23
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,677 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
I think your problem is that huge oil leak you have! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Look at all the gunk on everything. Your clutch looks like it is soaked in oil. Lubricants and friction surfaces don't usually mix that well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) Your flywheel is burnt from all the oil ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy |
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| Derek Seymour |
May 5 2009, 12:35 PM
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 10-March 09 From: Yucaipa Member No.: 10,151 Region Association: Southern California |
A new clutch kit will come with a pressure plate, clutch disk and throw out bearing and those should all be replaced. No reason to replace just one component, especially when you have gone to all the trouble of removing the tranny and such.
Your flywheel looks good, just take some fine grit sandpaper and go over the surface where the clutch mates to the flywheel. This is also a good time to inspect seals and clean accumulated oil/dirt/grease. Tape vent holes and power wash your tranny if you can. Don't take the flywheel off if you don't need to but check and make sure you don't have a RMS leak. That's probably as much help as I can be. More qualified members will probably post additional info. Good Luck!! and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) |
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| Cire |
May 5 2009, 12:40 PM
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 279 Joined: 12-March 09 From: Tucson, Arizona Member No.: 10,155 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Derek Seymour @ May 5 2009, 11:35 AM)  Don't take the flywheel off if you don't need to but check and make sure you don't have a RMS leak. Good Luck!! and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) RMS Leak? I turned up the tranny to sit it on the big round part and tranny oil came out. About 2 or 3 silver dollars worth. Its now flat, as you can see from the pictures. Does that mean there is a seal behind the flywheel that needs to be changed? Thanks again for all the great help. I promise to clean it up good. = ) Eric |
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| Cire |
May 5 2009, 12:42 PM
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 279 Joined: 12-March 09 From: Tucson, Arizona Member No.: 10,155 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Derek Seymour @ May 5 2009, 11:35 AM) Where are the vent holes? A power washer wont hurt it huh? Thanks again. Eric |
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| Porsche Rescue |
May 5 2009, 12:50 PM
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#27
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Saving and Enjoying Old Porsches Group: Members Posts: 2,978 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Bend, Oregon Member No.: 64 Region Association: None |
There is an air vent on top of the tranny, in line with the axles I think. That is the only place water could get in. Pressure wash is fine. I usually use in combination with some sort of degreaser.
You should be able to tell by smell if all that oil if from the trans. Sounds like you need a new mainshaft seal for the trans. for sure. Easy to replace. If the rear main seal on the engine is bad you have a more difficult but doable task ahead. Flywheel must come off first. In that case you need new flywheel bolts, a felt seal, rear main seal and maybe some other stuff. Do some reading here and on the Pelican site for specifics. |
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| Cire |
May 5 2009, 12:52 PM
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 279 Joined: 12-March 09 From: Tucson, Arizona Member No.: 10,155 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ May 5 2009, 11:50 AM) There is an air vent on top of the tranny, in line with the axles I think. That is the only place water could get in. Pressure wash is fine. I usually use in combination with some sort of degreaser. You should be able to tell by smell if all that oil if from the trans. Sounds like you need a new mainshaft seal for the trans. for sure. Easy to replace. If the rear main seal on the engine is bad you have a more difficult but doable task ahead. Flywheel must come off first. When I pulled the tranny off the engine, no oil came out. Only when I set the tranny on its end. Is that a good sign? Means the Rear Main Seal (RMS) is good (or atleast isnt gushing oil)? Thanks. = ) |
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| Porsche Rescue |
May 5 2009, 12:59 PM
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#29
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Saving and Enjoying Old Porsches Group: Members Posts: 2,978 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Bend, Oregon Member No.: 64 Region Association: None |
You have way too much oil on the clutch and in the bell housing. You have to plug the leaks or your new clutch won't last long.
RMS is on the engine, seals the end of the crank shaft, behind the flywheel. If a lot of your oily "mess" is motor oil, it is leaking, The trans seal (the one which likely leaked when you tipped the tranny up) seals the transmission main shaft, behind the throw out bearing. Gear oil has a distinct odor. You need to determine if only one or both are leaking before you put things back together. |
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| SLITS |
May 5 2009, 01:09 PM
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#30
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None  |
If he stood the tranny on it's end, the oil came out of the breather (vent if you wish). It is located on the right side top, near where the bell housing starts expanding from the case. Little hex do-dad with a hole in one of the faces.
As far as the source for other oils, he has to determine that, but a rear main crankshaft seal replacement is not brain surgery. Just make sure you put all the shims that were behind the flywheel back in so the end play stays the same. Oops didn't look at the other images that were uploaded. |
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| Porsche Rescue |
May 5 2009, 01:11 PM
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#31
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Saving and Enjoying Old Porsches Group: Members Posts: 2,978 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Bend, Oregon Member No.: 64 Region Association: None |
If the oil came from the vent there should be a visible trail on the case. Tip it again and see where the oil comes from.
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| SirAndy |
May 5 2009, 01:32 PM
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#32
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,677 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 5 2009, 11:24 AM) I think your problem is that huge oil leak you have! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Look at all the gunk on everything. Your clutch looks like it is soaked in oil. Lubricants and friction surfaces don't usually mix that well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) Your flywheel is burnt from all the oil ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy Anybody even looked at the pictures he posted? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I wasn't talking about the fresh oil at all, which obviously had spilled after removing the tranny. But look at all the old baked in oil EVERYWHERE and the burn surface on the flywheel and the pressure plate as well as the oil soaked clutch disk. That's from oil leaking into the clutch while the car was driven! If you don't fix your oil leaks, your new clutch package will be money thrown out of the window. Your call ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy |
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| SLITS |
May 5 2009, 01:36 PM
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#33
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ May 5 2009, 12:11 PM) If the oil came from the vent there should be a visible trail on the case. Tip it again and see where the oil comes from. Agreed .... If you look at the first image of the bellhousing interior, you can see a fresh oil trail from one of the vents in the bellhousing ... exactly below where the vent sits in the housing. It would be interesting to see the back of the flywheel to see if it has oil sling streaks on it. |
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| SLITS |
May 5 2009, 01:39 PM
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#34
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 5 2009, 12:32 PM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 5 2009, 11:24 AM) I think your problem is that huge oil leak you have! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Look at all the gunk on everything. Your clutch looks like it is soaked in oil. Lubricants and friction surfaces don't usually mix that well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) Your flywheel is burnt from all the oil ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy Anybody even looked at the pictures he posted? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I wasn't talking about the fresh oil at all, which obviously had spilled after removing the tranny. But look at all the old baked in oil EVERYWHERE and the burn surface on the flywheel and the pressure plate as well as the oil soaked clutch disk. That's from oil leaking into the clutch while the car was driven! If you don't fix your oil leaks, your new clutch package will be money thrown out of the window. Your call ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy Yes, Andy ... I did look ... and it is a real problem. I was also looking to see if I could see cracks and blueing, but the images are not that detailed. You are most certainly correct about ruining a new clutch assembly without fixing the oil leaks. |
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| Porsche Rescue |
May 5 2009, 02:00 PM
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#35
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Saving and Enjoying Old Porsches Group: Members Posts: 2,978 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Bend, Oregon Member No.: 64 Region Association: None |
Looking at the pic, it does not appear oily at the bottom of the engine case. Certainly removing the flywheel is the best way to check things out, but it looks from the pics that the trans seal is the primary culprit. |
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| Derek Seymour |
May 5 2009, 02:03 PM
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 10-March 09 From: Yucaipa Member No.: 10,151 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(SLITS @ May 5 2009, 12:39 PM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 5 2009, 12:32 PM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 5 2009, 11:24 AM) I think your problem is that huge oil leak you have! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Look at all the gunk on everything. Your clutch looks like it is soaked in oil. Lubricants and friction surfaces don't usually mix that well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) Your flywheel is burnt from all the oil ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy Anybody even looked at the pictures he posted? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I wasn't talking about the fresh oil at all, which obviously had spilled after removing the tranny. But look at all the old baked in oil EVERYWHERE and the burn surface on the flywheel and the pressure plate as well as the oil soaked clutch disk. That's from oil leaking into the clutch while the car was driven! If you don't fix your oil leaks, your new clutch package will be money thrown out of the window. Your call ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy Yes, Andy ... I did look ... and it is a real problem. I was also looking to see if I could see cracks and blueing, but the images are not that detailed. You are most certainly correct about ruining a new clutch assembly without fixing the oil leaks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) QUOTE It would be interesting to see the back of the flywheel to see if it has oil sling streaks on it. I was thinking the same thing... Go over ANY area that could possibly leak oil, replace seals and check all your torque values. |
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| Cire |
May 5 2009, 03:09 PM
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 279 Joined: 12-March 09 From: Tucson, Arizona Member No.: 10,155 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 5 2009, 12:32 PM) I wasn't talking about the fresh oil at all, which obviously had spilled after removing the tranny. But look at all the old baked in oil EVERYWHERE and the burn surface on the flywheel and the pressure plate as well as the oil soaked clutch disk. That's from oil leaking into the clutch while the car was driven! If you don't fix your oil leaks, your new clutch package will be money thrown out of the window. Your call ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy I see everyones point. The oil is coming from somewhere and our hunch is the RMS is bad and needs to be replaced. I will pull off the flywheel and take pictures of the back for the group. We will look for streak marks. I did clean the tranny. Spotless. Is now the time to paint it too? I also took pictures of the motor mounts. Any way to tell if they are any good or need to be replaced? Thanks everyone for the advice. So we are needing... Clutch Pressure Plate Throw Out Bearing RMS Tranny shaft Seal Its now to the point that its cheaper to buy the kit then it is to piece it together... Money...    |
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| Cire |
May 5 2009, 03:11 PM
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 279 Joined: 12-March 09 From: Tucson, Arizona Member No.: 10,155 Region Association: None |
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| TravisNeff |
May 5 2009, 03:19 PM
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#39
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region 
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Here's a complete list of parts for replacing the clutch assembly (from pelican)
New Pressure Plate (resurface old or replace) New Clutch Disc New Throw-out Bearing New Pilot Bearing and Felt Ring 2 Throw-out Bearing Guide Clips New Throw-out Fork Bushing 2 CV Joint Gaskets 2 Muffler Gaskets New Flywheel O-Ring New Flywheel Bolts New Flywheel Metal Crush Gasket Clutch Disc Alignment Tool |
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| SirAndy |
May 5 2009, 03:24 PM
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#40
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,677 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Unbolt the tranny mounts, use the long bolt as a lever and move it around and see if the rubber is cracked. If there are any cracks, replace them. You can use the 911 sport mounts instead of the OEM mounts. They'll work just fine.
As for the seals, did you check all the other possible leak areas? My guess is most of the oil came from the main shaft seal or the pivot bolt on the tranny. Also check the shifter console and output shafts for leaks. And the speedo angle drive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) Andy |
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