I think its time to change the clutch and had some questions.

1 - Do you have to drop the entire Engine to do the change?

2 - Whats the quickest cheapest way to get it done?

3 - Should I drain the tranny oil or just drop, change and replace?

I realize that there are a lot of things that -should- be done, but I am one of the folks that has lost my job. I need to get the car back up and running for as little as possible. So changing syncros would be great, I might not have the funds to buy 1st and 2nd ($80 each?), but might not be possible. I love hearing the suggestions but the budget has to come first.

Thanks gang.

Eric

Jack up car and put on jack stands
Get jack under center rear of motor, just snug it up.
Remove negative cable from the battery
Remove the clutch cable.
Remove the speedo cable.
Remove the rear shifter bar.
Remove the wiring from the starter, and remove the starter.
Remove both rear tranny bolts that hold the tranny to the body.
using the jack that is under the motor, slowly lower the rear of the tranny.
REmove the muffler now that you can reach all the bolts easily.
Oh, remove the reverse electrical plug.
Remove the axles from the tranny side only.
Now remove all the remaining nuts that are holding the tranny to the motor.
With the tranny at a good angle downwards...pull it out and down.
It weighs about 75 lbs, but I can do this on my back if properly positioned.
Done.
Then you need to unbolt the pressure plate and remove it.
The clutch disk falls out now.

then put it all back together.

Rich

It is possible to yank out the transaxle (drain it to save weight lifting it off) then with the engine well supported you have access to the clutch. I did mine with the engine out. In a way, it is easier to remove the whole unit since the top drivers side bolt for the transaxle is such a pain in the ar$$e to get off with the engine in. Only first and reverse gears are easy to work on, others are behind the middle plate and require you to separate the transaxle. New first gear parts can be more expensive than you think!
Good luck with the 914 and finding a new job

EDIT -woops

not too hard to do. Just messy.

= ) I can deal with Messy. I just want to make sure I can handle the rest. I have changed a tranny in a vw bug before but not the 914. It sounds pretty straight forward.

Where is this top bolt that is hard to get to? Any secrets to get it out?

Thanks again everyone!!!

Eric

I have a six and don't remember type IVs that well but I recall the top bolt that is a pain really isn't too bad if you have the right tools. It is one of the starter bolts and you need to have something on both sides to keep the bolt from turning while you take the nut out. I recall if it is on right the sheet metal aids in this but if it isn't you need to keep a wrench on it if you can.

Drain the tranny to save weight? Are you nuts? You're gonna save less than 5lbs out of about 80+/-. Top bolt hard? Nope. Irritating, maybe. Shoot the top bolts (in the engine compartment) with a good penetrant (WD 40 IS NOT a penetrant!), loosen the nuts, spin 'em off while keeping a little outward pressure on the bolt. BTW, a proper clutch job includes surfacing the flywheel and changing the 2 oil seals, as well as all the hard parts.

The Cap'n

If yer gunna change the clutch without dropping the tranny, disconnect the #^&$%@ ground strap first... it will give you a few more inches of aft movement on the tranny.

Thanks for the good info.

Where is the cheapest place to get a 914 clutch kit? If I am trying to save money is it cheaper to buy the clutch kit or only the parts I must replace? Tough one without knowing whats bad inside.

Eric

Call GPR, (800) 321-5432. List members, good guys.

The Cap'n

When I dropped my engine and tranny, gravity disconnected the strap for me!

Changing the clutch isn't that bad of a job. I did mine like Rich describes. I would think that it would be much easier with the transmission out of the car. I didn't have any trouble with bolts or anything.

The only think I would add to Rich's description is to get a clutch alignment tool so the clutch plate is lined up with the engine when putting the pressure plate back on.

Oh, yeah, it is messy. Plan on throwing your clothes away afterwards.

.... cough cough....

Well, everything is out, off and away and the only item left... Top Bolt. = ) I cant get a socket on it. My wrenches are to long to get in there. Shesh. I even lowered the thing a few inches but its a matter of getting a sock or wrench on there to get it off.

Can I weld another nut on it? Sure make it much simpler. Is there a market for these? = ) "Welded Bolt... Top Bolt"?

Eric

I did it by following this step by step tech article from Pelican Parts. I also bought all the parts from them as a thank you to the support they give us enthusiasts. Trust me, if I can do it, ANYONE can!

Look at the Pelican article, page 2 at figure 16. It describes the bolt which also holds the starter on. You use a 17 mm box/open on the nut from the engine compartment side. Should be no need to weld anything.

Probably worth reading the entire article just for drill.

I just did my clutch this last weekend... what a difference ... GPR has them for a very reasonable price and they are great guys

Its all apart!!! Here are a few pictures. What are your thoughts on the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel? Also the clutch almost looks concaved from the side. Like it was pulled in to far or something. Could that have been the failure? Anyone ever seen it happen that way before. Let me know if you need more pictures of the clutch.

Thanks again everyone. Group Think ROCKS!!!

Eric

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I think your problem is that huge oil leak you have!

Look at all the gunk on everything. Your clutch looks like it is soaked in oil.
Lubricants and friction surfaces don't usually mix that well.

Your flywheel is burnt from all the oil ...
Andy

A new clutch kit will come with a pressure plate, clutch disk and throw out bearing and those should all be replaced. No reason to replace just one component, especially when you have gone to all the trouble of removing the tranny and such.

Your flywheel looks good, just take some fine grit sandpaper and go over the surface where the clutch mates to the flywheel. This is also a good time to inspect seals and clean accumulated oil/dirt/grease. Tape vent holes and power wash your tranny if you can. Don't take the flywheel off if you don't need to but check and make sure you don't have a RMS leak.

That's probably as much help as I can be. More qualified members will probably post additional info.

Good Luck!!

and

RMS Leak?

I turned up the tranny to sit it on the big round part and tranny oil came out. About 2 or 3 silver dollars worth. Its now flat, as you can see from the pictures. Does that mean there is a seal behind the flywheel that needs to be changed?

Thanks again for all the great help.

I promise to clean it up good. = )

Eric

Where are the vent holes? A power washer wont hurt it huh?

Thanks again.

Eric

There is an air vent on top of the tranny, in line with the axles I think. That is the only place water could get in. Pressure wash is fine. I usually use in combination with some sort of degreaser.

You should be able to tell by smell if all that oil if from the trans. Sounds like you need a new mainshaft seal for the trans. for sure. Easy to replace.

If the rear main seal on the engine is bad you have a more difficult but doable task ahead. Flywheel must come off first. In that case you need new flywheel bolts, a felt seal, rear main seal and maybe some other stuff. Do some reading here and on the Pelican site for specifics.

When I pulled the tranny off the engine, no oil came out. Only when I set the tranny on its end. Is that a good sign? Means the Rear Main Seal (RMS) is good (or atleast isnt gushing oil)?

Thanks. = )

You have way too much oil on the clutch and in the bell housing. You have to plug the leaks or your new clutch won't last long.
RMS is on the engine, seals the end of the crank shaft, behind the flywheel. If a lot of your oily "mess" is motor oil, it is leaking,

The trans seal (the one which likely leaked when you tipped the tranny up) seals the transmission main shaft, behind the throw out bearing. Gear oil has a distinct odor.

You need to determine if only one or both are leaking before you put things back together.

If he stood the tranny on it's end, the oil came out of the breather (vent if you wish). It is located on the right side top, near where the bell housing starts expanding from the case. Little hex do-dad with a hole in one of the faces.

As far as the source for other oils, he has to determine that, but a rear main crankshaft seal replacement is not brain surgery. Just make sure you put all the shims that were behind the flywheel back in so the end play stays the same.

Oops didn't look at the other images that were uploaded.

If the oil came from the vent there should be a visible trail on the case. Tip it again and see where the oil comes from.

Anybody even looked at the pictures he posted?


I wasn't talking about the fresh oil at all, which obviously had spilled after removing the tranny.
But look at all the old baked in oil EVERYWHERE and the burn surface on the flywheel and the pressure plate as well as the oil soaked clutch disk.

That's from oil leaking into the clutch while the car was driven!

If you don't fix your oil leaks, your new clutch package will be money thrown out of the window.

Your call ...
Andy

Agreed .... If you look at the first image of the bellhousing interior, you can see a fresh oil trail from one of the vents in the bellhousing ... exactly below where the vent sits in the housing.

It would be interesting to see the back of the flywheel to see if it has oil sling streaks on it.

Yes, Andy ... I did look ... and it is a real problem. I was also looking to see if I could see cracks and blueing, but the images are not that detailed. You are most certainly correct about ruining a new clutch assembly without fixing the oil leaks.

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Looking at the pic, it does not appear oily at the bottom of the engine case. Certainly removing the flywheel is the best way to check things out, but it looks from the pics that the trans seal is the primary culprit.

I was thinking the same thing...

Go over ANY area that could possibly leak oil, replace seals and check all your torque values.

I see everyones point. The oil is coming from somewhere and our hunch is the RMS is bad and needs to be replaced. I will pull off the flywheel and take pictures of the back for the group. We will look for streak marks.

I did clean the tranny. Spotless. Is now the time to paint it too?

I also took pictures of the motor mounts. Any way to tell if they are any good or need to be replaced?

Thanks everyone for the advice.

So we are needing...
Clutch
Pressure Plate
Throw Out Bearing
RMS
Tranny shaft Seal

Its now to the point that its cheaper to buy the kit then it is to piece it together... Money...

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Here's a complete list of parts for replacing the clutch assembly (from pelican)

New Pressure Plate (resurface old or replace)
New Clutch Disc
New Throw-out Bearing
New Pilot Bearing and Felt Ring
2 Throw-out Bearing Guide Clips
New Throw-out Fork Bushing
2 CV Joint Gaskets
2 Muffler Gaskets
New Flywheel O-Ring
New Flywheel Bolts
New Flywheel Metal Crush Gasket
Clutch Disc Alignment Tool

Unbolt the tranny mounts, use the long bolt as a lever and move it around and see if the rubber is cracked. If there are any cracks, replace them. You can use the 911 sport mounts instead of the OEM mounts. They'll work just fine.

As for the seals, did you check all the other possible leak areas?
My guess is most of the oil came from the main shaft seal or the pivot bolt on the tranny.

Also check the shifter console and output shafts for leaks. And the speedo angle drive.
Andy

Damn, We're good***




















*** at spending someone else's money.

I took off the fly wheel. Here are some pictures. It looks really clean to me. What are your thoughts?

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yup, passenger side mount is busted, second pic of the transaxle mounts.
Great progress, keep it up

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This clutch is interesting. I dont know if the pictures show it but it almost looks broken/busted in the middle. Like it caved in... Also, the original issue was that the clutch just stopped working. The arm went in and out. It worked fine right up to the time it stopped working. When it was hot it would grind a bit but minimal. Could this have been the issue?

Eric

So that crack in the 2nd picture makes this a bad motor mount? Cool. Good to know. Thanks for looking at that. I was trying to figure out how to best test it. I will just change it. Are they expensive? This is going to be a $1000 clutch job by the time I am done fixing everything. BLEH!

Thanks again!

Eric

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No. It's a bad Transmission Mount. Your motor mounts are up front where the motor is.


Now, don't just look for obvious cracks in those mounts. See my post above for testing both mounts.
If in doubt, replace them with 911 Sport Mounts.

And to confuse you even more, the 911 Sport Mounts are 911 motor mounts that can be used as 914 transmission mounts.

Also, you might want to check your motor mounts in the front and make sure those aren't broken.
They don't look anything like the mounts in the rear. In fact, it'll be hard to get to them with the motor still in the car.
Andy

Cire, see the black lines going out from the center of the flywheel and all the black baked on looking patches? That is from oil leaking out of the RMS and being flung outwards by centrifugal force, then after the motor is off and still hot all the leaked out oil is baking on to the flywheel.

Clean your flywheel with gas or acetone. Sand the surface on the flywheel where the clutch mates
Replace RMS (Take note of how many shims you have and put them back EXACTLY the way you found it when bolting the flywheel back on)

Derek's advice is probably best, but that engine case/seal area sure looks clean and fresh. Could the back of the flywheel be showing oil from a leak which has been repaired?
However, you are so close now you may as well replace the rms.