Do you have to pull the engine to change the clutch?, I need to do a clutch change and had some questions... Options

[SLITS]

Damn, We're good***




















*** at spending someone else's money. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Cire]

I took off the fly wheel. Here are some pictures. It looks really clean to me. What are your thoughts?

[Chris Pincetich]

yup, passenger side mount is busted, second pic of the transaxle mounts.
Great progress, keep it up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Cire]

[Cire]

[Cire]

This clutch is interesting. I dont know if the pictures show it but it almost looks broken/busted in the middle. Like it caved in... Also, the original issue was that the clutch just stopped working. The arm went in and out. It worked fine right up to the time it stopped working. When it was hot it would grind a bit but minimal. Could this have been the issue?

Eric

[Cire]

yup, passenger side mount is busted, second pic of the transaxle mounts.
Great progress, keep it up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

So that crack in the 2nd picture makes this a bad motor mount? Cool. Good to know. Thanks for looking at that. I was trying to figure out how to best test it. I will just change it. Are they expensive? This is going to be a $1000 clutch job by the time I am done fixing everything. BLEH!

Thanks again!

Eric

[SirAndy]

So that crack in the 2nd picture makes this a bad motor mount?

No. It's a bad Transmission Mount. Your motor mounts are up front where the motor is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)


Now, don't just look for obvious cracks in those mounts. See my post above for testing both mounts.
If in doubt, replace them with 911 Sport Mounts.

And to confuse you even more, the 911 Sport Mounts are 911 motor mounts that can be used as 914 transmission mounts.

Also, you might want to check your motor mounts in the front and make sure those aren't broken.
They don't look anything like the mounts in the rear. In fact, it'll be hard to get to them with the motor still in the car.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

[Derek Seymour]

Cire, see the black lines going out from the center of the flywheel and all the black baked on looking patches? That is from oil leaking out of the RMS and being flung outwards by centrifugal force, then after the motor is off and still hot all the leaked out oil is baking on to the flywheel.

Clean your flywheel with gas or acetone. Sand the surface on the flywheel where the clutch mates
Replace RMS (Take note of how many shims you have and put them back EXACTLY the way you found it when bolting the flywheel back on)

[Porsche Rescue]

Derek's advice is probably best, but that engine case/seal area sure looks clean and fresh. Could the back of the flywheel be showing oil from a leak which has been repaired?
However, you are so close now you may as well replace the rms.

[Cap'n Krusty]

You guys done yet? You never need to replace T4 flywheel bolts unless they're damaged in some way. The oil from a leaking rear main seal isn't gonna get on the clutch unless it's just pouring out. The F/W o-ring is a more common source of engine oil migrating to the clutch. However, in this case, it' looks like it may be tranny oil.

The flywheel is on its last legs. It's been cut far enough to require the heads of the F/W bolts to be cut down, and that means it can't be cut again (it probably shouldn't have been cut the last time!). If you leave it alone, maybe just break the glaze, it may be OK for a while. With the F/W cut as far as it has been, you need to make sure there's an extra washer behind the ball stud for the release arm. The washer to use is one of the ones under any of the tranny cover bolts. Put something else there in its place.

When removing the tranny, or the complete drive train, it's FAR easier to remove the 4 8mm bolts on the tranny mounts than it is to remove the 2 large bolts, and you'll never have to remember (or ask) where the washers go ..........

Now back to your regularly scheduled program ............

The Cap'n

[Porsche Rescue]

The Cap'n knows best. Do as he says. It is his business to know this stuff. Most of the rest of us just play at it.

[Cire]

You guys done yet? You never need to replace T4 flywheel bolts unless they're damaged in some way. The oil from a leaking rear main seal isn't gonna get on the clutch unless it's just pouring out. The F/W o-ring is a more common source of engine oil migrating to the clutch. However, in this case, it' looks like it may be tranny oil.

The flywheel is on its last legs. It's been cut far enough to require the heads of the F/W bolts to be cut down, and that means it can't be cut again (it probably shouldn't have been cut the last time!). If you leave it alone, maybe just break the glaze, it may be OK for a while. With the F/W cut as far as it has been, you need to make sure there's an extra washer behind the ball stud for the release arm. The washer to use is one of the ones under any of the tranny cover bolts. Put something else there in its place.

When removing the tranny, or the complete drive train, it's FAR easier to remove the 4 8mm bolts on the tranny mounts than it is to remove the 2 large bolts, and you'll never have to remember (or ask) where the washers go ..........

Now back to your regularly scheduled program ............

The Cap'n

Thanks Cap'n. = )

Behind the flywheel looks very clean. Are those 2 open holes supposed to be like that? Should something be covering them? I do think its more the tranny leaking than the engine. The engine looks fairly clean. The tranny when stood on its end leaked fluid but not from the breather but rather the shaft (I think - I didnt see a trail from the breather per a suggestion a few posts back - thanks). So is that an easy seal to replace?

Thanks again everyone.

ERic

[r_towle]

The large amount of sediment on the inside of the bellhousing makes me believe the front seal on the tranny is leaking.
The stripes on the back of the flywheel makes me think that the rear main seal is leaking.

I am also concerned about your galley plugs on the bottom of the case...those dont look right..maybe someone used JBWeld on them....not really sure what it is, but it does not look right.

Rich

[Cire]

I am also concerned about your galley plugs on the bottom of the case...those dont look right..maybe someone used JBWeld on them....not really sure what it is, but it does not look right.

Rich

Rich,

I wonder if there was a leak before and the way they fixed it was with JB Weld. I agree it looks like it. That would account for all the oil all over the tranny and clutch and fly wheel and and and. They open it up, fix the leak, clean it up and put it back as best as possible. It held for awhile until the clutch failed...?

So I will change the RMS and the Tranny main shaft seal. What else?

Thanks.

Eric

[SLITS]

See if someone can give you Greg Robbins number in Phoenix. I gave him a couple of flywheels and if he has an extra that is good (not cut), tell him Ron Meier told you to call and ask for it.

If you get and use a "newer" flywheel you will need to confirm your endplay.

Get new flywheel bolts if your's are cut ( if you use a "newer" flywheel).

If the throwout bearing is smooth in rotation, you need not replace it.

Check the plastic bushing under the clutch fork arm as Cap'n Krusty suggested.

Get a new or good used clutch assembly.

As far as your galley plugs, well they seem to be holding with the JB Weld or whatever epoxy it is.

Well, that's my shot at it ... Ok, John, you can jump in again.

Edit: Here is Greg's number .... 602-291-3525

[Jeffs9146]

Wouldn't a leak from the oil pressure sender over a period of time work its way into the clutch area? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I would do as Cap'n said, and you might as well just do all seals, replace the F/W, PP and the TOB "WYAIT" (while you are in there)!

[Cire]

I would do as Cap'n said, and you might as well just do all seals, replace the F/W, PP and the TOB "WYAIT" (while you are in there)!

What is the F/W? PP? and the TOB? = ) Do they come in the kit? A kit?

Thanks

Eric

[SLITS]

F/W = Flywheel

PP = Pressure Plate or clutch cover (your choice)

TOB = Throw out bearing

Only thing you left out was friction disk .... what goes between pressure plate and flywheel.

And yes, it all comes in a kit and from Automobile Atlanta, I believe you can get a kit that includes a resurfaced flywheel.

[Cire]

And yes, it all comes in a kit and from Automobile Atlanta[u], I believe you can get a kit that includes a resurfaced flywheel.

Part Number: r91411600001

Name of item:
914 19 PIECE CLUTCH PACKAGE KIT (NEW FLYWHEEL, rebuilt plate & disc)

It looks like the full kit can be had for $556.22 and $100 dollar core at Automobile Atlanta.

Description Of Product:
Our 19-piece clutch package contains everything we use in our shop for a perfect clutch replacement. Beware of lesser kits, you will need all of these parts! Included is the clutch installation manual. KIT INCLUDES: Rear main seal, Throwout bearing, 2 Throwout bearing clips, Flywheel (NEW), Front trans. seal, 2 CV joint gaskets, Flywheel O-ring, Ball stud cup, 2 Muffler gaskets, Needle bearing, CV joint bolt, Clutch alignment tool, Flywheel crush washer, Felt washer, Pressure plate (RBLT), Clutch disc (rblt.), clutch installation manual. CORE CHARGE $100

To Purchase:

Price: $556.22

________________________________________

From Pelican its $539.10 but without a flywheel.

New Pressure Plate
New 911 Clutch Disc
New Throw-out Bearing
New Pilot Bearing and Felt Ring
2 Throw-out Bearing Guide Clips
New Throw-out Fork Bushing
2 CV Joint Gaskets
2 Muffler Gaskets
New Flywheel O-Ring
New Flywheel Bolts
New Flywheel Metal Crush Gasket
Clutch Disc Alignment Tool
Flywheel/crankshaft seal not included - check yours first before ordering.

914-CP-1000AN 914-4 20 Piece Super Clutch Kit, Without Flywheel, 914 1.7/1.8/2.0 (1970-76), Each [More Info]
$539.10
________________________________

I guess I need all these items, its just a lot of money. Can anyone put together a used kit cheap? Not crap parts but I know I have good used parts around my shop that would work for other areas of the car. Maybe someone has a good flywheel, clutch, pressure plate setup they want to sell? I know. New is the way to go... but I doubt I can afford it at this time.

Thanks again everyone.

Eric